+1 on everything Chris says here. If anyone on the PMC is uncomfortable with making someone a committer because of their uncommunicativeness, I'd be inclined to give it a little more time. A "no" now, doesn't mean a "no" forever. Maybe ask that person a few questions about their PR's on the list and see if they can be encouraged to engage? Maybe let the PMC member who's advocating for a particular contributor be the one to take point on that effort?
Greets, Myrle On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 1:43 PM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > Hi Dimitriy, > > well I guess I simply forgot about the option the PMC != Committers ;-) > > So I agree, in some cases I could probably support someone not able to > communicate because of such reasons a committer, but definitely not to > become a PMC. > But if it's just laziness or unwillingness (for whatever reasons) I would > not support them even becoming a committer, as I think these contributions > would just be > uncommented code-drops, which I don't think have a positive impact on the > community (See other thread here) > > Chris > > > Am 02.11.18, 13:19 schrieb "Dmitriy Pavlov" <dpavlov....@gmail.com>: > > Dear ASF Fellows, > > I strongly appreciate all your replies. I believe there is no just one > correct answer. Which is why I need opinions of folks from other > projects. > > Myrle, Apache Ignite has 26 PMC members and 38 committers, so PMCs is a > subset of committers set. > > About collaboration: I guess these contributors were communicating with > someone of community within a company they work for, in person/or, > probably, Skype. So maybe the code was good. And they became effective > code > contributors without valuable communication on lists and without > contributing to the community. > > Chris, About the subject: it is translated version of the argument I > hear > about contributors, who are not often present on dev/user list. > > So if a person does not like to communicate, let's say, afraid of > society/publicity, can he or she be a committer in Apache? > > Sincerely, > Dmitriy Pavlov > > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 14:31, Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org>: > > > Hi Dmitriy, > > > > Is Ignite a PMC = committer community or a PMC ⊂ committer community? > > > > You may have different requirements for communication level > depending on > > which of these your community is. But I don't believe it is > possible to > > write very good code without being willing to talk with others about > it. > > > > Still, different communities have different "bars". And I've come > to be > > convinced by Greg Stein, that a lower committer bar is better for > > attracting contributions. People might feel more comfortable > communicating > > once they've been given the committer bit? > > > > Regards, > > Myrle > > > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:53 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov....@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear ASF Fellows, > > > > > > I am PMC member of Apache Ignite, but I joined PMC relatively > recently. I > > > need help from you again in regarding the Apache Way. > > > > > > Question is related to comittership for community members, > > > > > > - who are not visible on dev/user list, have a couple of threads > they > > > participated > > > > > > - but contributed a significant feature or many fixes. > > > > > > Usually, such contributors work for a commercial company with > sufficient > > > product expertise, so they probably collaborate with experts, but > outside > > > space of Apache. > > > > > > > > > Several guides and policies > > > > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#meritocracy > > > > > > http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html > > > > > > and others say that PMC member needs to evaluate communication and > > > cooperative work with peers, ability to be a mentor, behavior in > > > disagreement. > > > > > > > > > Communication is required by Apache Ignite guide > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Committership+Bar+Guidance > > > > > > Simultaneously > > > > https://community.apache.org/contributors/#contributing-a-project-copdoc > > > > > > contains a mention someone who contributed sufficiently to ‘ANY’ > area may > > > become a committer. So why can't we count code only contribution > without > > > contribution to community/project? > > > > > > There are several cases when I may disagree with other PMC members. > > > > > > I insist candidate should communicate in ASF space because A) > > > community-first and motto: B) “If it didn’t happen on the mailing > list it > > > didn’t happen.” For such cases then contributors collaborate > outside > > Apache > > > space we can still accept a contribution, still appreciate > contributor’s > > > effort and say thank you; but not promote as a committer. But I may > > > over-estimate the role of collaboration in the ASF. I may be too > strict > > in > > > understanding ASF principles. > > > > > > But PMCs who suggest such comittership candidates may > counter-argument > > > > > > - those cool developers don't like to communicate (they may be a > little > > bit > > > uncomfortable with public communications/tries to avoid spam/any > other > > > reasons they have). > > > > > > - If he or she will communicate often, then he or she will never > have > > time > > > to write a code. > > > > > > So what do you think? Is it required to communicate with the rest > of the > > > community publicly more than a couple of times to become a > committer? > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > > > > >
