John: If you decided to take a stab a blogging about it, please think about blogging on the cordova site! We can all review it before publishing it too!
Erik: that video was awesome! Let me know when Gorkem does a release and I can post it on the cordova twitter feed. Michal: Could just be CLI vs Plugman workflow On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org> wrote: > I wonder if we should not work out better names for the two workflows. > Both are kinda command-line-based so saying "CLI" vs "old" is confusing. > As is saying "the bin/ script flow" confusing. Not sure if "multi" vs > "single" platform flow is any better, since you can use both flows for one > or more platforms. > > Anyway, if we have more obvious/catchy names, then we can be more clear in > our communications which flow our answers are relevant to. i.e., "use > plugman to ... (only for ___ flow)". i.e., "Be carefully when editing in > IDE ... (only for ___ flow)". > > -Michal > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anis KADRI <anis.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Erik that's great! Where can we download it? > > On Oct 18, 2013 8:01 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <agri...@chromium.org> wrote: > > > > > Awesome video!! > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Erik Jan de Wit <ede...@redhat.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On the topic of IDE support my collage Gorkem has made a nice wizard > in > > > > eclipse that mimics the CLI have a look at this video > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyUUtmTYok > > > > > > > > On 18 Oct,2013, at 4:29 , Maxime LUCE <max...@somatic.fr> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Great Bryan > > > > > Totally agree !!! > > > > > > > > > > Cordialement. > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > Maxime LUCE - Somatic > > > > > maxime.l...@somatic.fr > > > > > 06 28 60 72 34 > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > De : Brian LeRoux<mailto:b...@brian.io> > > > > > Envoyé : 18/10/2013 01:48 > > > > > À : dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org> > > > > > Objet : Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk > > > > > > > > > > I don't really appreciate comments that we don't talk to our users, > > or > > > > build apps in anger. Neither of those assertions are true. The > origins > > of > > > > these initiatives are based on both community feedback, and direct > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > Keeping your focus on just pure platform side of a project is fine, > > of > > > > course, since the CLI delegates to the platform. This was also a > > > deliberate > > > > learning from MANY attempts at an architecture that satisfies both > > > > approaches. It separates the concerns and respects the platform will > be > > > > canonical for the common workflows supported. This is a very real > > example > > > > of Conway's Law btw. [1] > > > > > > > > > > Anyhow. Deep breath! Software has bugs, people will report them, > and > > > > we'll continue to improve. This is a very large group with a very > > diverse > > > > community that spans regular old hackers to the humble web designers. > > We > > > > need to respect that, and maybe be a little more compassionate to > each > > > > other too. All software is fucked up, and at the end of the day, it > is > > > our > > > > perpetual job to make it a little less fucked up. > > > > > > > > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Inline image 1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Tommy Williams < > to...@devgeeks.org > > > > <mailto:to...@devgeeks.org>> wrote: > > > > > Late to the party due to timezone fun, but I just want to chime in > in > > > > > support of the CLI. > > > > > > > > > > As a dev working on an actual nontrivial "real world" app, I would > > like > > > > to > > > > > let it be known that we (SpiderOak) have been heavy drinkers of the > > CLI > > > > > Kool-Aid since its infancy. > > > > > > > > > > We have even managed to get to the point where ./platforms/**/* is > > > just a > > > > > build artefact (mostly by using hooks and tying the whole thing > > > together > > > > > with Grunt). > > > > > > > > > > We have a fast and fairly complex app (both many core plugins as > well > > > > and a > > > > > few custom/third party ones), that even includes the ability to > white > > > > label > > > > > it with relative ease. > > > > > > > > > > I feel pretty strongly in favour of the CLI and strongly advocate > its > > > use > > > > > when asked in the #phonegap IRC channel. > > > > > > > > > > Just my opinion, but thought it was important to add to the > > discussion. > > > > > > > > > > - tommy / devgeeks > > > > > On 18 Oct 2013 04:44, "Anis KADRI" <anis.ka...@gmail.com<mailto: > > > > anis.ka...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Sweet. So I think we all agree (expect Joe perhaps?) that both > > > > >> approaches should be supported :-) > > > > >> > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Carlos Santana < > > > csantan...@gmail.com > > > > <mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>> I meant in addition of ".cordova/lib" also allow also to do > > something > > > > >> like > > > > >>> "cordova platform add ios > --path="./cordova_components/cordova-ios" > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Carlos Santana < > > > csantan...@gmail.com > > > > <mailto:csantan...@gmail.com> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> ++1 "to install from a given directory instead of > .cordova/libs." > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Viras < > > > vi...@users.sourceforge.net > > > > <mailto:vi...@users.sourceforge.net> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> This might be true - it took me quite some time to figure out > how > > > the > > > > >> CLI > > > > >>>>> actually works - despite also having to fix one or two bugs for > > the > > > > WPX > > > > >>>>> implementation of the CLI code (as well as the Windows 8 CLI > > code). > > > > But > > > > >>>>> still I would hate to see the CLI go, since I think once you > are > > > used > > > > >> to > > > > >>>>> it, it saves you quite a lot of time (I still have those old > > > > documents > > > > >>>>> which guide me through the setup of the IDE projects for the > > > > different > > > > >>>>> platforms - which is now mostly obsolete). > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> So I guess supporting both methods is the way to go... :) > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Best, > > > > >>>>> Wolfgang > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Am 2013-10-17 16:13, schrieb Michal Mocny: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Thanks so much for chiming in, I'm very happy to see that > you've > > > > >> figured > > > > >>>>>> out how to leverage the benefits and avoid the drawbacks of > the > > > new > > > > >>>>>> workflow, and that it has led to increased productivity for > you. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> I do think that perhaps it is still too difficult for every > > > > developer > > > > >> to > > > > >>>>>> learn what you already have. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -Michal > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Viras < > > > > vi...@users.sourceforge.net<mailto:vi...@users.sourceforge.net>> > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> my view on this discussion: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I've used the CLI to release the latest version of GOFG > Sports > > > > >> Computer > > > > >>>>>>> for Windows Phone. The support for the "merges" directory is > a > > > > >> fantastic > > > > >>>>>>> feature which allows me to focus on the javascript code using > > > e.g. > > > > >> the > > > > >>>>>>> NetBeans IDE - I can finally handle all my platform specific > > code > > > > >> from > > > > >>>>>>> JavaScript in one consistent directory structure - which is > > what > > > > >> Cordova > > > > >>>>>>> should be about. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> In addition the CLI forces you to write clean code (not > > implying > > > > that > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>> other method forces to write messy code). If you need > something > > > > >> native > > > > >>>>>>> write a clean plugin for it (which also makes the code > > reusable) > > > - > > > > no > > > > >>>>>>> need > > > > >>>>>>> to mess around in the native projects code - this also makes > > > > >> upgrading > > > > >>>>>>> cordova much easier. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Once I've done the Windows Phone version I've simply added > > > Android > > > > >> as a > > > > >>>>>>> platform, build it and I was done - no need for fiddling > around > > > > with > > > > >>>>>>> SDK / > > > > >>>>>>> IDE setup etc (besides actually installing it). So CLI is my > > > > favorite > > > > >>>>>>> way > > > > >>>>>>> to develop now - and it is far more powerful than the old > > > approach > > > > >> (in > > > > >>>>>>> my > > > > >>>>>>> opinion) - since it saves you from fiddling around with > project > > > > >>>>>>> settings, > > > > >>>>>>> etc. when you do a multi-platform release. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Oh yes - and GOFG SC uses two custom plugins, 5 official > > plugins > > > > and > > > > >>>>>>> cordova 3.0 - so it is a bit beyond the "Hello World" > > > > application.... > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> And I do not agree that it isn't possible to work with the > > native > > > > >> IDEs > > > > >>>>>>> with their own projects - this is simply wrong since you can > > > always > > > > >> go > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>> the "platforms" directory and open the platform-projects > using > > > > their > > > > >>>>>>> native > > > > >>>>>>> IDE from there (I've done this myself for e.g. plugin > > > development). > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Still I agree that both versions should be supported - but > > don't > > > > make > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>> assumption that the CLI is for "n00bs" only! > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Best, > > > > >>>>>>> Wolfgang > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Am 2013-10-16 23:11, schrieb Joe Bowser: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Michal Mocny < > > > mmo...@chromium.org > > > > <mailto:mmo...@chromium.org>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Anis: Totally agrees, but its important to highlight that > both > > > > >>>>>>>>> directions > > > > >>>>>>>>> for that arguments hold. We've done our best to support > bin/ > > > > >> scripts > > > > >>>>>>>>> post > > > > >>>>>>>>> 3.0, yet blanket statements like "CLI should not be used > with > > > > >> IDE", or > > > > >>>>>>>>> "CLI > > > > >>>>>>>>> sucks unless you just doing something trivial" are being > > thrown > > > > >>>>>>>>> around, > > > > >>>>>>>>> which are harmful in my opinion, and I don't think its fair > > > that > > > > >> some > > > > >>>>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>>>> us > > > > >>>>>>>>> are promoting that message to users. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I don't think we're communicating with our users at all, > so I > > > > >> don't > > > > >>>>>>>> see how this could be communicated. When users communicate > > > their > > > > >>>>>>>> frustrations, it's usually something like this > > > > >>>>>>>> (http://www.infil00p.org/****config-xml-changes-for-ios-**< > > > > >> http://www.infil00p.org/**config-xml-changes-for-ios-**> > > > > >>>>>>>> and-android/#comment-10731<htt**p:// > > www.infil00p.org/config-**< > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/config-**> > > > > >>>>>>>> xml-changes-for-ios-and-**android/#comment-10731< > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/config-xml-changes-for-ios-and-android/#comment-10731 > > > > >>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> ) > > > > >>>>>>>> and this > > > > >>>>>>>> ( > > http://www.infil00p.org/****introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**** > > > < > > > > >> http://www.infil00p.org/**introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**> > > > > >>>>>>>> android/#comment-10694<http://** > > www.infil00p.org/introducing-** > > > < > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-**> > > > > >>>>>>>> cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#**comment-10694< > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#comment-10694 > > > > >>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> ). > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> CLI works well for me, and while its not perfect, I strive > to > > > > learn > > > > >>>>>>>> its > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> limitations and make it better, not condemn it. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> I avoid it because it's not developed for me, or developers > > like > > > > me > > > > >>>>>>>> who like to see a big pile of output when things fail. I > > > avoided > > > > >>>>>>>> having any part in its development because I thought it was > > the > > > > >> wrong > > > > >>>>>>>> way to do things. I assumed that the majority of users > > actually > > > > >>>>>>>> wanted this and that I should do my best to work around > this, > > > but > > > > >> with > > > > >>>>>>>> the backlash that we're getting, such as the blog posts and > > some > > > > >>>>>>>> comments on the Google Groups, it seems that this is a > feature > > > > very > > > > >>>>>>>> few people actually wanted. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> As far as the CordovaWebView use case, I actually have never > > > tried > > > > >>>>>>>> that. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Has anyone bothered to make sure it works well post-3.0, or > > > does > > > > >> Joe > > > > >>>>>>>>> have > > > > >>>>>>>>> a point that we missed addressing this? > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> We have JUnit unit tests in the Android repository to make > > sure > > > > that > > > > >>>>>>>> this still works. However, I would like to see this test > case > > > > >>>>>>>> revisited since it may be more appropriate to have > > > CordovaActivity > > > > >> be > > > > >>>>>>>> inherited instead of CordovaInterface, or for both to be > > > > supported. > > > > >>>>>>>> This is so that we can make more hybrid applications and > deal > > > with > > > > >> the > > > > >>>>>>>> fact that we're so brutally non-complaint with Android UI > > > > guidelines > > > > >>>>>>>> instead of just ignoring it. I'll probably bring this up > and > > > > >> present > > > > >>>>>>>> more source code when it's ready to explain why we need this > > > > feature > > > > >>>>>>>> in the next couple of weeks, and why it's important to > respect > > > the > > > > >>>>>>>> platform, even when the platform doesn't respect the web. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> -- > > > > >>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy > > > > >>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> -- > > > > >>>> Carlos Santana > > > > >>>> <csantan...@gmail.com<mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> -- > > > > >>> Carlos Santana > > > > >>> <csantan...@gmail.com<mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
