Yeah we were joking that we were fine with Apache Cordova 10, but not Apache Cordova X --- ACX is too Apple. :)
-Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Jesse [mailto:purplecabb...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 11:37 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: Independent platform release summary I am sure Microsoft had a much longer discussion before deciding on Windows 10, and probably the same goes for Android L Happy to be moving ... @purplecabbage risingj.com On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org> wrote: > 4.0! woo hoo. > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Josh Soref <jso...@blackberry.com> wrote: > > > Ok, 4.0 > > > > On 10/10/14, 2:08 PM, "Steven Gill" <stevengil...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >Alright, 4.0. > > > > > >On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Shazron <shaz...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> 4.0 and let's move on. It's just a number, and is a minor point > > >>in the end. > > >> > > >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Andrew Grieve > > >> <agri...@chromium.org > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Should we consider jumping to 13? You know... just prefix a 1 > > >> > onto > the > > >> > existing number. > > >> > > > >> > .... > > >> > > > >> > 4.0 (or any other number) is great by me! > > >> > > > >> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN > TECH) > > >>< > > >> > panar...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > 4.0 is also good. Should we tag and start a vote for that ? > > >> > > Sorry for asking about vote again, but I want to ensure that > > >> > > the > > >>issues > > >> > > that Sergey fixed in the CLI/Lib are impacting some folks and > > >> > > I > hope > > >> this > > >> > > release could help them fast. > > >> > > > > >> > > On 10/10/14, 10:17 AM, "Victor Sosa" <sosah.vic...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > >lol... I like that :P > > >> > > > > > >> > > >2014-10-10 12:09 GMT-05:00 Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com>: > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> On Oct 10, 2014 10:05 AM, "Brian LeRoux" <b...@brian.io> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > OR we move to named releases externally. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > Cordova MX === 4.0 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Cordova Mexico? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Oct 10, 2014 10:03 AM, "Michal Mocny" < > mmo...@chromium.org> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > 4 was also discussed as fine, and in isolation would > > >> > > >> > > have > > >>been > > >> our > > >> > > >> choice > > >> > > >> > > for sure -- but we worried that with the impending > > >>"cordova-4.0" > > >> > > >> releases, > > >> > > >> > > it would confuse users and not mark a clear departure > > >> > > >> > > from > > >> cadver. > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > The more I think about it though, the less important I > think > > >> that > > >> > > >>worry > > >> > > >> > > is. Maybe 4.0 is fine. > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > (Apologies to Steve, who just wants to get this over > > >> > > >> > > with) > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Brian LeRoux > > >> > > >> > > <b...@brian.io > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > As is 4. > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > This is more of an outreach, marketing, blogging, > tweeting, > > >> etc > > >> > > >> problem. > > >> > > >> > > > Versions are for issue tracking not marketing. (Tho > semver > > >>and > > >> > our > > >> > > >> > > > respective $BIGCO's confuse that to their and our > continued > > >> > > >>strife.) > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > (All IMO of course, happy to follow the wisdom of > > >> > > >> > > > the > > >>crowd on > > >> > > >>this > > >> > > >> one.) > > >> > > >> > > > On Oct 10, 2014 9:29 AM, "Michal Mocny" > > >><mmo...@chromium.org> > > >> > > >>wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > 5 is also fine. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Brian LeRoux > > >><b...@brian.io> > > >> > > >>wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > I am against it. Its not going to achieve the > > >> > > >> > > > > > goal of > > >> > > >>alleviating > > >> > > >> > > > > > confusion. People see the CLI as the version not > > >> > > >> > > > > > the > > >> > > >>platforms. > > >> > > >> I'd > > >> > > >> > > > > rather > > >> > > >> > > > > > we went to 5 if anything. > > >> > > >> > > > > > On Oct 9, 2014 3:56 PM, "Parashuram Narasimhan > > >> > > >> > > > > > (MS > OPEN > > >> > > >>TECH)" < > > >> > > >> > > > > > panar...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > I meant tag and start the vote for the next > > >> > > >> > > > > > > release > > >>:) > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > On 10/9/14, 3:01 PM, "Chuck Lantz" < > > >> cla...@microsoft.com> > > >> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >+1 > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >-Chuck > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >From: Jesse [mailto:purplecabb...@gmail.com] > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:55 PM > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >To: dev@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Independent platform release > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >summary > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >+1 to not voting ;) , it implies we will wait > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >+72 > > >>hours > > >> > > >>before > > >> > > >> > > moving > > >> > > >> > > > > on. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >How about if anyone is completely against > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >10.0.0 > > >>they > > >> > > >>voice it > > >> > > >> > > here, > > >> > > >> > > > > in > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >the next couple hours, otherwise we move forward. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >@purplecabbage risingj.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Steven Gill < > > >> > > >> > > stevengil...@gmail.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> I don't think a vote is necessary. I'd hate > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> to > > >>see us > > >> > > >>resort > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >> > > > > voting > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> to solve problems. Voting should be a last > resort > > >>if > > >> > > >> consensus > > >> > > >> > > is > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> split. I don't see that in this scenario. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> I propose we bumb the version up to 10.0.0. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Parashuram > > >>Narasimhan > > >> > (MS > > >> > > >> OPEN > > >> > > >> > > > > TECH) < > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> panar...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > Lets start with a vote for 10.0.0 ? And > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > if > > >>someone > > >> > > >>feels > > >> > > >> > > > strongly > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > about calling it something the vote could > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > be > > >> > cancelled > > >> > > >>!! > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > On 10/9/14, 2:41 PM, "Chuck Lantz" > > >> > > >><cla...@microsoft.com> > > >> > > >> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Yeah agreed - Vladimir squashed the bug > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >and > > >>what > > >> was > > >> > > >>at > > >> > > >> once > > >> > > >> > > > > point > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >to be called 3.7.0 has been mainly > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >waiting > on a > > >> > > >>version > > >> > > >> > > number. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Personally I am fine with 10.0.0 or > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >5.0.0 - > > >>Either > > >> > > >>send > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >> > > > > message > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >that platform versions are divorced from > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >the > > >>CLI > > >> > from > > >> > > >>a > > >> > > >> > > > > versioning > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >perspective (though behavior is still > > >> predictable). > > >> > > >>Leo > > >> > > >> - I > > >> > > >> > > > > think > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >at least out of the gate devs will > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >likely > > >>focus on > > >> > the > > >> > > >> CLI > > >> > > >> > > > > version > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >as primary. Basically today, the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >cadence > > >>version > > >> of > > >> > > >>the > > >> > > >> CLI > > >> > > >> > > is > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >what people talk about. Heck, Cordova > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >3.4.1 was 3.4.0 for all platforms but iOS. > The > > >> main > > >> > > >> message > > >> > > >> > > is > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >that > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> when > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >you platform add android, you may see an > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >npm > > >>pull > > >> > for > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >cordova-android@4.3.2 and that is expected. > > >>It's > > >> > > just > > >> > > >> > > > > formalizing > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >the message and allows independent > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >platform > > >> rev'ing. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >-Chuck > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >-----Original Message----- > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >From: Steven Gill > > >>[mailto:stevengil...@gmail.com] > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:13 PM > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >To: dev@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Cc: Michal Mocny; Marcel Kinard > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Subject: Re: Independent platform > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >release > > >>summary > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >I think vladimir fixed the bug. We just > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >need > to > > >> > > >>release > > >> > > >> now. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Only thing holding back the release now > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >is > > >> consensus > > >> > > >>on > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >> > > > > version > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >of the cli. It seemed like most people > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >were > > >> leaning > > >> > > >> toward > > >> > > >> > > > > 10.0.0. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Should I move forward with that? I would > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >just > > >>have > > >> > to > > >> > > >> branch > > >> > > >> > > + > > >> > > >> > > > > pin > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >deps > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Leo the documentation version dropdown > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >box > > >>would > > >> be > > >> > > >>tied > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >> > > cli > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>version. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >It still makes sense to copy over > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >platform > > >> > > >>documentation > > >> > > >> into > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >platform repos and maybe copy it into > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >docs > > >>during > > >> > > >> generation > > >> > > >> > > > > time. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >As for plugin pinning, plugins have more > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >to > do > > >> with > > >> > > >> > > platforms. > > >> > > >> > > > I > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> wouldn't > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >say they aren't tied to the cli at all. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >I > > >> understand > > >> > > >>your > > >> > > >> > > point > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>though. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >So far, we haven't had any plugins that > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >won't > > >>work > > >> > > >>with > > >> > > >> > > > previous > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> versions > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >(As far as I know). We should really fix > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >the > > >> engine > > >> > > >>stuff > > >> > > >> for > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >plugins so we can keep track of what > platforms > > >> they > > >> > > >>work > > >> > > >> for. > > >> > > >> > > > I'd > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >like us to give warnings to users to > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >update > > >>their > > >> > > >>plugins > > >> > > >> if > > >> > > >> > > > > newer > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>versions are out. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Cordova info should also dump what > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >versions > of > > >> > plugins > > >> > > >> you > > >> > > >> > > have > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> installed > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >if it doesn't already. In combination > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >with > > >>cordova > > >> > > >>--save > > >> > > >> & > > >> > > >> > > > > cordova > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >--restore, we should be able to > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >recommend a > > >> workflow > > >> > > >>that > > >> > > >> is > > >> > > >> > > > > easily > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >reproducible on any machine. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Chuck > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >Lantz < > > >> > > >> > > > > cla...@microsoft.com> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Okay - so - there's a pretty nasty CLI > > >>blocker > > >> bug > > >> > > >> right > > >> > > >> > > now. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Plugins with dependencies don't > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> install > (this > > >> > > >>affects > > >> > > >> all > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platforms). In my opinion, we need to > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> get > a > > >>CLI > > >> > > >> release > > >> > > >> > > out > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> really soon. Are we closed on this > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> topic, > > >>or do > > >> > we > > >> > > >> need to > > >> > > >> > > > > look > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> at doing the old process to get this > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> out > the > > >> door > > >> > > >>while > > >> > > >> we > > >> > > >> > > > are > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>still talking? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> There are also a series of other bugs > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> in > the > > >> > > >>currently > > >> > > >> > > tagged > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>"3.6.4" > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platforms for Android, Windows, and > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Windows > > >> Phone > > >> > 8. > > >> > > >> These > > >> > > >> > > > can > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> be handled independently, but the CLI > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> bug > > >>can't. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-7670 > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> -Chuck > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> From: Treggiari, Leo > > >> > > >>[mailto:leo.treggi...@intel.com] > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:23 > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> PM > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> To: Michal Mocny > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Cc: Marcel Kinard; dev > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Subject: RE: Independent platform > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> release > > >> summary > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> I'll have to admit that this seems a > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> bit > > >>weird. > > >> > > >>That > > >> > > >> is, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> independent versions of the CLI and > > >>platforms, > > >> > with > > >> > > >>a > > >> > > >> > > > "Cordova > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> release" named "something" - e.g. a date? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Imagine a user wants to know whether > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> the > new > > >> > > >>whitelist > > >> > > >> > > entry > > >> > > >> > > > in > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> config.xml is supported in the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> versions of > > >>CLI > > >> and > > >> > > >> > > platforms > > >> > > >> > > > > that > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> they have - assuming they understand > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> the > > >> > distinction > > >> > > >> > > between > > >> > > >> > > > > the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> CLI and platforms to begin with. They > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> use > > >>some > > >> > > >>command > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >> > > > list > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> the versions of the "things" (CLI and > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platforms) they have installed. They > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> go to > > >>the > > >> > > >> individual > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> documentation of the "things" and try > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> to > > >>figure > > >> it > > >> > > >>out. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> The way the Cordova documentation > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> works > > >>today is > > >> > > >>nice > > >> > > >> with > > >> > > >> > > > the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> combo box where I can select a Cordova > > >>version - > > >> > > >>3.6.0, > > >> > > >> > > > 3.5.0, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> ... What would the combo box contain > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> in > the > > >>new > > >> > > >> versioning > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> scheme and how many entries would there be? > > >>Are > > >> > the > > >> > > >> > > answers > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>"dates" and "lots of dates"? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Or would there be no Cordova version > > >> documentation > > >> > > >> other > > >> > > >> > > than > > >> > > >> > > > > an > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> explanation of how to get the list of > > >>"things" > > >> you > > >> > > >> > > currently > > >> > > >> > > > > have > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> and where to find the documentation on > them. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> To "pin" or not to "pin. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Note that, to me, the pinning choice > defines > > >> what > > >> > > >> happens > > >> > > >> > > > when > > >> > > >> > > > > I > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>use "cordova {plugin | platform} add foo" > > >>with > > >> no > > >> > > >> specific > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>version specified. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> I've understood, so far at least, that > > >>plugins > > >> are > > >> > > >>not > > >> > > >> > > pinned > > >> > > >> > > > > (an > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> add always fetches something) and > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platforms > > >>are > > >> > > >>pinned > > >> > > >> to a > > >> > > >> > > > CLI > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> version (an add tells the CLI that I > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> will > be > > >> using > > >> > > >>that > > >> > > >> > > > > platform > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> (already > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> installed) for this project). > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Everything I > > >>have > > >> > > >>read > > >> > > >> which > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> includes 1 book and the on-line > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> project > > >> > > >>documentation, > > >> > > >> > > > suggest > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> that, even if not stating it explicitly. > > >>E.g. > > >> > > >>plugins > > >> > > >> talk > > >> > > >> > > > > about > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> "fetching" and platforms don't. There > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> is a > > >>way > > >> to > > >> > > >> fetch a > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> specific version of platform support. > That's > > >> good > > >> > > >>and > > >> > > >> if I > > >> > > >> > > > do > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> that it is up to me to understand the > > >> > compatibility > > >> > > >>of > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>specific version I requested. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Is this true? If so then the npm > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> cordova > > >> behavior > > >> > > >> seems > > >> > > >> > > > weird. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> That is, if I "npm install cordova" I > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> get a > > >>set > > >> of > > >> > > >> pinned > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platforms. If I "npm update cordova", > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> I > get > > >>a > > >> new > > >> > > >>CLI > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> nothing else - i.e. not the platforms > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> that > > >>were > > >> > > >>pinned > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >> > > > that > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>version of the CLI? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Should the plugin and platform 'pin' > > >>behavior be > > >> > the > > >> > > >> same? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Should both be pinned? Some may find > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> this > > >> > > >>alternative > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>"blasphemous" > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> but the core plugin versions tested > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> with a > > >> version > > >> > > >>of > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >> > > CLI > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> could be pinned to the version of the CLI. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Should both not be pinned? It would > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> be > more > > >> > > >>consistent > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >> > > > if > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> users are OK with plugins being > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> unpinned, > why > > >> not > > >> > > >> > > platforms? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> But maybe plugins and platforms are > > >>different. > > >> > > >>Plugins > > >> > > >> are > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> purely run-time code. Platforms are > > >>primarily > > >> > > >>tooling > > >> > > >> with > > >> > > >> > > > > some > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> run-time > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> code. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Does that difference make the current > pinning > > >> > > >>behavior > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >> > > > best > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> choice. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Maybe, but personally I would prefer > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> both > to > > >>be > > >> > > >>pinned > > >> > > >> - > > >> > > >> > > > i.e. I > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> install a version of Cordova, and > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> until I > > >>update > > >> > it, > > >> > > >> every > > >> > > >> > > > > time I > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> add a platform or 'core' plugin, I get > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> the > > >>same > > >> > > >>thing. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Leo > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> From: mmo...@google.com [mailto: > > >> mmo...@google.com > > >> > ] > > >> > > >>On > > >> > > >> > > Behalf > > >> > > >> > > > > Of > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> Michal > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Mocny > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 1:47 > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> PM > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> To: Treggiari, Leo > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Cc: Michal Mocny; Marcel Kinard; dev > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Subject: Re: Independent platform > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> release > > >> summary > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> With this direction, there is no > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> single > > >>number. > > >> > > >>Users > > >> > > >> > > should > > >> > > >> > > > > not > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> functionally care about CLI version, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> so > there > > >> will > > >> > > >>just > > >> > > >> be > > >> > > >> > > > the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platform versions that matter, really. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Downstreams can of course put labels > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> on > > >> > > >>combinations of > > >> > > >> > > > > versions, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> so "PhoneGap 4" may be Android 4, iOS > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> 3.8, > > >>and > > >> > etc. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:39 PM, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Treggiari, > > >>Leo > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> <leo.treggi...@intel.com <mailto: > > >> > > >> leo.treggi...@intel.com > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > Did I miss anything? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> I don't think we closed on this (I had > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> to > > >>leave > > >> > the > > >> > > >> > > meeting a > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> little > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> early) but a remaining question is how > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> to > > >> version > > >> > > >>what > > >> > > >> we > > >> > > >> > > > (and > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> users) call "Cordova". Assuming a > "Cordova" > > >> > > >>version is > > >> > > >> a > > >> > > >> > > > point > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> in time collection of the latest CLI > version > > >>+ > > >> > > >>platform > > >> > > >> > > > > versions > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> + plugin versions. Is the Cordova > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> + version > > >> semver > > >> > > >> (using > > >> > > >> > > what > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> algorithm with respect to its > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> contained > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> components) or is that what you meant > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> by > > >> ""latest > > >> > > >>as > > >> > > >> of > > >> > > >> > > Oct > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> 2014" or something". > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Thanks, Leo > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> From: mmo...@google.com<mailto: > > >> mmo...@google.com> > > >> > > >> [mailto: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> mmo...@google.com<mailto:mmocny@google > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> .com > >] > > >>On > > >> > > >>Behalf > > >> > > >> Of > > >> > > >> > > > > Michal > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> Mocny > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 1:13 > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> PM > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> To: Michal Mocny > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Cc: Marcel Kinard; dev > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Subject: Re: Independent platform > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> release > > >> summary > > >> > > >> Thanks > > >> > > >> > > > > everyone > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> for participation in what was a long > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> and > > >> grueling > > >> > > >> > > discussion. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Summary of current proposal: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - Cad-ver is dead. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - Everything moves Sem-ver, with > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platforms > > >> > > >>continuing > > >> > > >> from > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> current versions and diverging over time. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - CLI potentially gets a significant > version > > >> bump > > >> > to > > >> > > >> > > showcase > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> this reset (to 5.0 or 10.0, not yet > settled) > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - Pinning default platform versions > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> *will* > > >> > continue > > >> > > >>for > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >> > > > > time > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> being, but it will be trivial to > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> override > the > > >> > > >>default. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - Platforms will have CLI <engine> tag > > >> equivalent > > >> > > >> (unclear > > >> > > >> > > > yet > > >> > > >> > > > > if > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> as node peerDependency or otherwise) > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> so > devs > > >> will > > >> > > >>know > > >> > > >> when > > >> > > >> > > > > they > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> need to upgrade/downgrade CLI for > non-default > > >> > > >>platform > > >> > > >> > > > > versions. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - After a platform update, eventually > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> CLI > > >>will > > >> > > >>release > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >> > > > "pin" > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> the new default, and bump its > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> PATCH/MINOR > > >> version > > >> > > >> (unless > > >> > > >> > > CLI > > >> > > >> > > > > had > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> a functional update at same time that > > >>requires a > > >> > > >>larger > > >> > > >> > > > bump). > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - After you update CLI, your existing > > >>projects > > >> > don't > > >> > > >> > > change & > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> platform upgrades remain explicit, but > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> you > > >>will > > >> > now > > >> > > >>get > > >> > > >> > > > > warnings > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> if your installed platforms are older > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> than > > >>the > > >> CLI > > >> > > >> pinned > > >> > > >> > > > > > versions. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - Event MAJOR changes to platforms are > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> not > > >>MAJOR > > >> > > >> updates to > > >> > > >> > > > the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> CLI, unless there is an actual > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> breaking > > >>change > > >> to > > >> > > >>the > > >> > > >> CLI > > >> > > >> > > > tool > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> (i.e. new CLI will no longer work with > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> the > > >> > currently > > >> > > >> > > > installed > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>platform). > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - Platform and CLI docs have to split > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> out > > >>and be > > >> > > >> released & > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> versioned alongside each (like plugins). > > >>Cross > > >> > > >> references > > >> > > >> > > > from > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> one to the other will only be needed > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> in a > few > > >> > > >>places. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Note: The CLI-Platform compatibility > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> story > is > > >> > > >> functionally > > >> > > >> > > no > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>different than we have today. If you > upgrade > > >> your > > >> > > >>CLI > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >> > > > there > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>is a breaking change, you will have to > > >>re-create > > >> > > >>your > > >> > > >> > > > projects > > >> > > >> > > > > or > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>downgrade CLI again. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Now we plan to be more explicit about > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>it > and > > >> offer > > >> > > >> > > warnings. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Note: There is no concept of a > "fancy-pants" > > >> > release > > >> > > >> other > > >> > > >> > > > than > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> to say "latest as of Oct 2014" or > something. > > >> > > >>Platforms > > >> > > >> > > don't > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> have a single common set of > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> functionality, > so > > >> > CadVer > > >> > > >> was > > >> > > >> > > > > somewhat > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> misleading already in that sense. We > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> could > > >> > > >>introduce a > > >> > > >> > > > concept > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> of "API Level" for exec bridge or > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> something > > >>for > > >> > use > > >> > > >>by > > >> > > >> > > > plugins, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>but not sure that has value. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> What wasn't covered that came to mind > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> after > > >>the > > >> > > >>fact: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> - When there is an update available > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> for > CLI, > > >> > should > > >> > > >>we > > >> > > >> > > give a > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> warning to update? (this is useful, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> but > isn't > > >> > common > > >> > > >> for > > >> > > >> > > npm > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> modules. I think we already do this > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> from > > >> plugman > > >> > > >>when > > >> > > >> you > > >> > > >> > > > try > > >> > > >> > > > > to > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >>publish plugins?). > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Did I miss anything? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> -Michal > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:35 PM, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Michal > Mocny > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >><mmo...@chromium.org<mailto: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> mmo...@chromium.org>> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > External Public link for those that > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > just > > >>want > > >> to > > >> > > >> > > > watch/chat: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > https://plus.google.com/events/cm4l0vifcig920qkhpn5stq > > >> > > >> > > iet4 > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > Hangout link to join the conversation: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcNwXEyet4Xv_23H > > >> iTl > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > 4I > > >> K0jsM4NlmGy5kbLsPIW3SnOsUEIQ?authuser=0&hl=en > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > See you in 30 minutes. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:33 PM, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > Michal > > >>Mocny > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > <mmo...@chromium.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> <mailto:mmo...@chromium.org>> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> +dev list again > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> Not everyone could make 1pm, not > everyone > > >> could > > >> > > >>make > > >> > > >> > > 2pm. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> While I don't think we need a full > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> 2 > > >>hours, > > >> I'm > > >> > > >> hoping > > >> > > >> > > to > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> start late and end early -- proving > > >> opportunity > > >> > > >> people > > >> > > >> > > to > > >> > > >> > > > > pop > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> in at either time and chime > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> in. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:18 PM, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> Marcel > > >> Kinard > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> <cmarc...@gmail.com<mailto: > > >> cmarc...@gmail.com > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> Is the expected duration 1 hour or > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> 2 > > >>hours? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> On Oct 8, 2014, at 10:56 AM, > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> Michal > Mocny > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >><mmo...@chromium.org<mailto: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> mmo...@chromium.org>> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > So it looks like Today 1-3 EST > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > or > > >>Friday > > >> 1-3 > > >> > > >>EST > > >> > > >> are > > >> > > >> > > > the > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > best > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>times. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> I'm > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > going to start the ball rolling > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > to do > > >>this > > >> > > >>TODAY, > > >> > > >> but > > >> > > >> > > > if > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > that proves > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> too > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > short notices we'll move it to > Friday. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > I'll email out links to hangout > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > at > > >>12:30 > > >> or > > >> > > >>so, > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >> > > I'm > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > hoping Steven > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> can > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > make it before 2pm since he's > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > been > most > > >> > active > > >> > > >> with > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > releases > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> recently. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > -Michal > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>>----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>-- > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > >> > > >> > > dev-unsubscr...@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >For additional commands, e-mail: > > >> > > >> dev-h...@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>-- > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > >> > > >> dev-unsubscr...@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > For additional commands, e-mail: > > >> > > >> dev-h...@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>>?B KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK > >>>>>KKKKK > > >>>>>KC > > >> > > >>>B > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>>? ?[ X ܚX K??K[XZ[? ??] ][ X ܚX P? ܙ?ݘK \?X ?K ܙ B ܈?Y??]?[ۘ > >>>>>[?? > > >>>>>[X > > >> > > >>>[ > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >? ??K[XZ[? ??] Z?[??? ܙ?ݘK \?X ?K ܙ B > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >-- > > >> > > >Victor Adrian Sosa Herrera > > >> > > >IBM Software Engineer > > >> > > >Guadalajara, Jalisco > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>--- > > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cordova.apache.org > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >
