Please see my comments on Robert's document, do chime in: https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss/pull/36
On Tuesday, March 29, 2016, Robert Posener <rposen...@gmail.com> wrote: > I did, but as my reply said, it wasn't showing up. > > Regards > *Rob Posener* > 0419 012 627 > > On 30 March 2016 at 05:01, Jesse <purplecabb...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> > wrote: > > > Good observations Julio, we should definitely talk to stack-overflow > about > > the merged tags. > > > > Robert, you didn't send the pull request back to cordova/cordova-discuss, > > so no one could see it. I have done so here: > > https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss/pull/35 > > > > > > > > > > @purplecabbage > > risingj.com > > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 4:29 AM, julio cesar sanchez < > > jcesarmob...@gmail.com <javascript:;> > > > wrote: > > > > > Joe said: > > > > > > "I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not > > > PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions." > > > > > > It's curious that Ionic has it's own tag, with about the same number of > > > questions that Cordova tag, but it's not on any of the lists (and it's > > not > > > because all Ionic questios are tagged with Cordova tag too, in fact, > most > > > of them aren't) > > > > > > But when people is using Phonegap and add the Phonegap tag to the > > question, > > > stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova tag because they decided long > > > time ago that they were synonyms, so you can't use Phonegap tag and we > > > can't be sure if they are using Cordova or Phonegap unless they tell it > > on > > > the question. > > > > > > I think that's a mistake by stack overflow part, because people using > > > phonegap doesn't follow same workflow that people using cordova as > > Phonegap > > > docs are different, they mostly use the developer app to test, and > > phonegap > > > users might have different problems. > > > > > > There are a lot of questions about "xxxx-xxxx 3rd party plugin isn't > > > working on my app", and the problem is they are using the phonegap > > > developer app. But they don't mention that they are using phonegap, > they > > > just add the phonegap tag, and stack overflow replaces it with a > Cordova > > > tag. They don't mention that they are using the Phonegap developer app > > > neither because they think that's the way of running Phonegap apps. I > see > > > at least one of those everyday on stack overflow or some other forums. > > > > > > I've filed a few issues on the phonegap docs page so they can make > > clearer > > > to users that when using the phonegap developer app they are not really > > > running their app, and they have some issues open to list the developer > > app > > > limitations. Once they are addressed, maybe the developers are a bit > > > happier. > > > > > > But I'm not sure what to do about the stack overflow synonym, should we > > > tell them to remove the synonym so people can use Phonegap and Cordova > as > > > different tags? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-03-29 8:23 GMT+02:00 Robert Posener <rposen...@gmail.com > <javascript:;>>: > > > > > > > I think I have created a discussion, but it is not showing up... yet > > > > another frustrations! > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > *Rob Posener* > > > > 0419 012 627 > > > > > > > > On 29 March 2016 at 16:48, Parashuram N <panar...@microsoft.com > <javascript:;>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request > you > > > to > > > > > create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so > > that > > > we > > > > > could start following up on specific issues there ? > > > > > > > > > > From: Robert Posener <rposen...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> > > > > > Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>" < > dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>> > > > > > Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM > > > > > To: "dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>" < > dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>> > > > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy? > > > > > > > > > > Gerday all, > > > > > Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a > > 6-page > > > > > contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing > them > > in > > > > the > > > > > attachment to this email. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Rob Posener > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Rob Posener > > > > > 0419 012 627 > > > > > > > > > > On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com > <javascript:;><mailto: > > > > > bows...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote: > > > > > I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond. We > > > don't > > > > > just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the > > > > expectation. > > > > > > > > > > I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and > actually > > > > solve > > > > > the problem in a timely manner. We've had both extremes of > > discussing > > > a > > > > > problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well. > > > > > > > > > > As for getting there, I have no idea. Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal < > rakat...@microsoft.com <javascript:;> > > > > > <mailto:rakat...@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' > PRs > > > > could > > > > > > be candidates for improvement. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhi...@microsoft.com > <javascript:;><mailto: > > > > > nikhi...@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>] > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM > > > > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;><mailto: > dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow > > > > > > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, > what > > > are > > > > > > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge > > > impact? > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we > > have > > > > made > > > > > > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact > of > > > our > > > > > > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms > of > > > > > > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of > > docs – > > > > > > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other > > > tools > > > > > like > > > > > > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for > > improvement? > > > > > > > > > > > > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had > > > somewhat > > > > > > high Net promoter score (NPS). > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d > > > > > > [3] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <csantan...@gmail.com > <javascript:;> > > <mailto: > > > > > csantan...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >I agree Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you > > > once > > > > a > > > > > > >day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst" > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not > > > every > > > > > > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a > few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what > > > people > > > > > > >are having problems on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com > <javascript:;> > > > <mailto: > > > > > bows...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> BTW: The last one was a joke. But in all honesty, we should > all > > > > > > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there > with > > > our > > > > > > >> respective products/distributions. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser < > bows...@gmail.com <javascript:;> > > > > > <mailto:bows...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva > > > > > > >> > <rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;><mailto: > rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>> > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the > technologies > > > > that > > > > > > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. > > They > > > > have > > > > > > an "other" > > > > > > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely > > driven > > > > by > > > > > > >> >> the checkbox options. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys??? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> Ryan J. Salva | Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools > > for > > > > > > >> >> Apache Cordova rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;><mailto: > > > rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;>> > > > > > > >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office > > > > > > >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > > > > > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bows...@gmail.com <javascript:;> > <mailto: > > > > > bows...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>] > > > > > > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM > > > > > > >> >> To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;><mailto: > > dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;> > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers > > > happy? > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva > > > > > > >> >> <rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;><mailto: > rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>> > > > > > > >> >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today: > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of > > > > > > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech > but > > > > have > > > > > > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, > > it’s > > > > > > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also > > doesn’t > > > > > > reflect their stated intent. > > > > > > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has > actually > > > > > > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… > I’m > > > just > > > > > > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list. > > I'd > > > be > > > > > > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" > > section > > > > of > > > > > > >> >> the > > > > > > >> trending > > > > > > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which > > > > indicate > > > > > > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or > are > > > just > > > > > > >> >> giving > > > > > > >> up. I > > > > > > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, > mostly > > > > > > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic > > or > > > > > > something else. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on > Cordova, > > > and > > > > > > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva | Principal PM Manager Visual Studio > Tools > > > for > > > > > > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;> > <mailto: > > > > rsa...@microsoft.com <javascript:;>> > > > > > > >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office > > > > > > >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bows...@gmail.com > <javascript:;><mailto: > > > > > bows...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>] > > > > > > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM > > > > > > >> >> > To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;><mailto: > > > dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;> > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making > developers > > > > happy? > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse < > > > > purplecabb...@gmail.com <javascript:;> > > > > > <mailto:purplecabb...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what > they > > > > like! > > > > > > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what > they > > > > > > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they > > > > liked. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > +1 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and > that > > > it > > > > > > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded. I also wonder what would > > > > happen > > > > > > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about > > how > > > > > > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez > > > > > > >> >> > > > <jcesarmob...@gmail.com <javascript:;><mailto: > jcesarmob...@gmail.com <javascript:;> > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > wrote: > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies: > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Visual Basic 79.5% > > > > > > >> >> > > > WordPress 74.3% > > > > > > >> >> > > > Matlab 72.8% > > > > > > >> >> > > > Sharepoint 72.1% > > > > > > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript 71.0% > > > > > > >> >> > > > LAMP 68.7% > > > > > > >> >> > > > Cordova 66.9% > > > > > > >> >> > > > Salesforce 65.4% > > > > > > >> >> > > > Other 61.5% > > > > > > >> >> > > > Perl 61.3% > > > > > > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3% > > > > > > >> >> > > > Objective-C 60.2% > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta > > > > > > >> >> > > ck > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co > > > > > > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d > > > > > >%7cf296b880892e437222 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7 > > > > > > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d > > > > > > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo > > > > > > >> >> > > ve > > > > > > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva% > > 40microsoft.com > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d > > > > > > > > > > > > >> %7c342aabb > > > > > > >> >> > > 95 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1 > > > > > > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > >> >> > > ------ > > > > > > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > dev-unsubscr...@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;> > > > > > <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>> > > > > > > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > dev-h...@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;> > > > > > <mailto:dev-h...@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B > > > > > KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB > > > > > > [ X ܚX K K[XZ[ > > > > > > ] ][ X ܚX P ܙ ݘK \ X K ܙ B ܈ Y ] [ۘ[ [X[ K[XZ[ > > > > > > ] Z [ ܙ ݘK \ X K ܙ B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >