Katia,

Kevin is interested and part of the D&I effort, and also an expert in
opt-in and unsolicited email. I very much suggest you consult with him
before sending emails to vast groups of people who haven't asked for D&I
emails.

Cheers,
-g


On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 3:26 AM Katia Rojas <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Sally,
>
> Sorry about that.
>
> We would like to share this survey with contributors involved with the
> ASF. Where contributors is something bigger than committers, could included
> non committers.
>
> The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from
> existing ASF contributors about the current level of diversity and
> inclusion, including education, age, socio-economic status, and gender.
>
> Which mailing list would be appropriate?
>  Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 03:08, Sally Khudairi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Katia.
>>
>> I've seen you trying to send multiple emails to committers@ along with
>> whatever is being disseminated to the [email protected] list.
>>
>> This is improper use of the committers@ email --this list is restricted
>> to very specific types of messages. We cannot be copying 7,000+ recipients
>> on every conversational message or project update. This why none of your
>> messages have been moderated through.
>>
>> Please let me know specifically what you're looking for (what is your
>> intended outcome) so we can sort out the best way to proceed with a
>> tactical plan.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Sally
>>
>> - - -
>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>
>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [email protected]
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2019, at 20:40, Katia Rojas wrote:
>> > Good point.
>> >
>> > I ping press@. Sally, could you help us?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 02:06, Niclas Hedhman <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >> Sally would probably be very helpful to reach a wider group. She has
>> direct
>> >> lines with media and it is likely that some/many of these would assist
>> in
>> >> getting the message out. Could perhaps also contact StackOverflow
>> (others?)
>> >> and see if they would be interested to help out with maybe a small
>> >> paragraph in their newsletter.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 11:52 PM Katia Rojas <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Thanks, Shane.
>> >> >
>> >> > And what about sending it to:
>> >> > [email protected] and
>> >> > [email protected]
>> >> > As the *effective* group of people we can contact with hopes of
>> responses?
>> >> >
>> >> > Would be acceptable to define “contributor” in this survey as people
>> >> > involved with the ASF and that we could reach them out by the mailing
>> >> > lists?
>> >> > How could we justify being more inclusive but at the same time
>> effective
>> >> > because sending postal cards or phone calls or any other channel
>> different
>> >> > from email is not viable. Is it possible to justify or not?
>> >> >
>> >> > I understand that “all” is a big term and might be impossible to be
>> done if
>> >> > we are strict with the terminology and what it implies so my
>> question would
>> >> > be is it possible or desirable to focus on committers and a sector
>> of non
>> >> > committers (don’t know how small or big it would be dev@) to get an
>> >> > initial
>> >> > idea of the barriers they are encountering while trying to join us?
>> >> >
>> >> > I can see both points of view. I am not 100 percent sure if it is
>> better
>> >> > this way or the other. From my perspective, only committers is
>> limited but
>> >> > I struggle justifying or defining the definition of “contributors”
>> that we
>> >> > are using here and that it doesn’t have to be necessarily a
>> definition to
>> >> > be used in other projects. I think there is space to define this
>> term but I
>> >> > wouldn’t like to be arbitrary and exclude people because it is not
>> possible
>> >> > to contact them.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 at 16:46, Shane Curcuru <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Katia Rojas wrote on 2019-10-23 3:22PM GMT+2:
>> >> > > ...snip...
>> >> > > > Where should we send the survey that we've been working on?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > So far there is a strong opinion on sending it only to the
>> >> > > > [email protected] <[email protected]>
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from all
>> existing
>> >> > > ASF
>> >> > > > contributors about the current level of diversity and inclusion,
>> >> > > including
>> >> > > > education, age, socio-economic status, and gender.
>> >> > > ...snip...
>> >> > > "All existing ASF contributors" is tens of thousands of people,
>> many of
>> >> > > whom we may not have any effective way to contact (i.e. drive-by
>> >> > > contributors to various Apache projects in the past). So defining
>> >> > > "contributor" is important; it's also important to decide what
>> >> > > *effective* group of people we can contact with hopes of responses.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > dev@diversity will only get a very small number of highly
>> self-selected
>> >> > > individuals, so is no where near what we need.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > It seems to me (and I'm not on the survey team), the best thing to
>> do is
>> >> > > mirror the existing 2016 survey and send a single, well-written
>> email to
>> >> > > [email protected] asking all Apache committers to respond.
>> While
>> >> > > that won't catch non-committers who have contributed, it's a very
>> >> > > important metric to start with, and is much easier than trying to
>> >> > > contact all-dev@ lists or use the giant announce@ list.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I understand the goal; but the effort and effectiveness for
>> reaching
>> >> > > *all* contributors is much higher. It feels like getting a really
>> solid
>> >> > > set of committer data first might be best.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Does that make sense?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Note also that there are specific technical rules for successfully
>> >> > > emailing committers@ or other wide lists, so be sure to work with
>> infra
>> >> > > or someone to get help before physically sending the mail.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > >
>> >> > > - Shane
>> >> > > Director & Member
>> >> > > The Apache Software Foundation
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
>> >> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>>
>

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