Thanks Greg, I will respond to Katia off-list. Happy to help. On 10/24/2019 6:24 AM, Greg Stein wrote: > Katia, > > Kevin is interested and part of the D&I effort, and also an expert in > opt-in and unsolicited email. I very much suggest you consult with him > before sending emails to vast groups of people who haven't asked for D&I > emails. > > Cheers, > -g > > > On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 3:26 AM Katia Rojas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Sally, >> >> Sorry about that. >> >> We would like to share this survey with contributors involved with the >> ASF. Where contributors is something bigger than committers, could included >> non committers. >> >> The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from >> existing ASF contributors about the current level of diversity and >> inclusion, including education, age, socio-economic status, and gender. >> >> Which mailing list would be appropriate? >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 03:08, Sally Khudairi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thank you, Katia. >>> >>> I've seen you trying to send multiple emails to committers@ along with >>> whatever is being disseminated to the [email protected] list. >>> >>> This is improper use of the committers@ email --this list is restricted >>> to very specific types of messages. We cannot be copying 7,000+ recipients >>> on every conversational message or project update. This why none of your >>> messages have been moderated through. >>> >>> Please let me know specifically what you're looking for (what is your >>> intended outcome) so we can sort out the best way to proceed with a >>> tactical plan. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Sally >>> >>> - - - >>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity >>> Vice President Sponsor Relations >>> The Apache Software Foundation >>> >>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [email protected] >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2019, at 20:40, Katia Rojas wrote: >>>> Good point. >>>> >>>> I ping press@. Sally, could you help us? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 02:06, Niclas Hedhman <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>> Sally would probably be very helpful to reach a wider group. She has >>> direct >>>>> lines with media and it is likely that some/many of these would assist >>> in >>>>> getting the message out. Could perhaps also contact StackOverflow >>> (others?) >>>>> and see if they would be interested to help out with maybe a small >>>>> paragraph in their newsletter. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 11:52 PM Katia Rojas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Shane. >>>>>> >>>>>> And what about sending it to: >>>>>> [email protected] and >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> As the *effective* group of people we can contact with hopes of >>> responses? >>>>>> Would be acceptable to define “contributor” in this survey as people >>>>>> involved with the ASF and that we could reach them out by the mailing >>>>>> lists? >>>>>> How could we justify being more inclusive but at the same time >>> effective >>>>>> because sending postal cards or phone calls or any other channel >>> different >>>>>> from email is not viable. Is it possible to justify or not? >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand that “all” is a big term and might be impossible to be >>> done if >>>>>> we are strict with the terminology and what it implies so my >>> question would >>>>>> be is it possible or desirable to focus on committers and a sector >>> of non >>>>>> committers (don’t know how small or big it would be dev@) to get an >>>>>> initial >>>>>> idea of the barriers they are encountering while trying to join us? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can see both points of view. I am not 100 percent sure if it is >>> better >>>>>> this way or the other. From my perspective, only committers is >>> limited but >>>>>> I struggle justifying or defining the definition of “contributors” >>> that we >>>>>> are using here and that it doesn’t have to be necessarily a >>> definition to >>>>>> be used in other projects. I think there is space to define this >>> term but I >>>>>> wouldn’t like to be arbitrary and exclude people because it is not >>> possible >>>>>> to contact them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 at 16:46, Shane Curcuru <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> Katia Rojas wrote on 2019-10-23 3:22PM GMT+2: >>>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>>> Where should we send the survey that we've been working on? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So far there is a strong opinion on sending it only to the >>>>>>>> [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from all >>> existing >>>>>>> ASF >>>>>>>> contributors about the current level of diversity and inclusion, >>>>>>> including >>>>>>>> education, age, socio-economic status, and gender. >>>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>> "All existing ASF contributors" is tens of thousands of people, >>> many of >>>>>>> whom we may not have any effective way to contact (i.e. drive-by >>>>>>> contributors to various Apache projects in the past). So defining >>>>>>> "contributor" is important; it's also important to decide what >>>>>>> *effective* group of people we can contact with hopes of responses. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> dev@diversity will only get a very small number of highly >>> self-selected >>>>>>> individuals, so is no where near what we need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It seems to me (and I'm not on the survey team), the best thing to >>> do is >>>>>>> mirror the existing 2016 survey and send a single, well-written >>> email to >>>>>>> [email protected] asking all Apache committers to respond. >>> While >>>>>>> that won't catch non-committers who have contributed, it's a very >>>>>>> important metric to start with, and is much easier than trying to >>>>>>> contact all-dev@ lists or use the giant announce@ list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I understand the goal; but the effort and effectiveness for >>> reaching >>>>>>> *all* contributors is much higher. It feels like getting a really >>> solid >>>>>>> set of committer data first might be best. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does that make sense? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Note also that there are specific technical rules for successfully >>>>>>> emailing committers@ or other wide lists, so be sure to work with >>> infra >>>>>>> or someone to get help before physically sending the mail. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Shane >>>>>>> Director & Member >>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer >>>>> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
-- Kevin A. McGrail [email protected] Member, Apache Software Foundation Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
