+1 on setting up our own Slack instance (PMC owned) +1 for having a separate discussion about setting up a discussion forum (I like the idea of using GH discussions)
Besides, we still need to investigate how > http://apache-airflow.slack-archives.org works, I think > a slack of our own can be easier to set up the archive. This is the code used by airflow: https://github.com/ashb/slackarchive. I'm happy to look into setting up the archive for the community. On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 11:00 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I would +1 to create Apache Flink Slack for the lower barriers to entry as > Jingsong mentioned. > Besides, we still need to investigate how > http://apache-airflow.slack-archives.org works, I think > a slack of our own can be easier to set up the archive. > > Regarding Discourse vs Slack, I think they are not exclusive, but > complementary. > Someday in the future, we might be able to provide them both. But what we > are seeking today > is a tool that can provide real-time communication and ad-hoc questions > and interactions. > A forum is more similar to a mailing list. Forum is modern mailing list > but can't solve the problems > mentioned above. With slack-archives, the information and thoughtful > discussion in Slack can also be searchable. > > I think we can open another thread to discuss creating a forum for Flink > and keep this thread focused > on Slack. IMO, we can investigate more kinds of forums, for example GitHub > Discussion which is free, powerful > and fully-managed. Airflow[1] and Next.JS also use GitHub Discussion as > their forum. > > Best, > Jark > > [1]: https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions > [2]: https://github.com/vercel/next.js/discussions > > > On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 15:24, Martijn Visser <mart...@ververica.com> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I would +1 setting up our own Slack. It will allow us to provide the best >> experience for those in the community who want to use Slack. >> More than happy to help with setting up community guidelines on how to use >> Slack. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Martijn >> >> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 05:22, Yun Tang <myas...@live.com> wrote: >> >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I think forum might be a good choice for search and maintain. However, >> > unlike slack workspace, it seems no existing popular product could be >> > leveraged easily. >> > >> > Thus, I am +1 to create an Apache Flink slack channel. If the ASF slack >> > cannot be joined easily for most of users, I prefer to set up our own >> slack >> > workspace. >> > >> > Best >> > Yun Tang >> > ------------------------------ >> > *From:* Jingsong Li <jingsongl...@gmail.com> >> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2022 10:49 >> > *To:* Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> >> > *Cc:* dev <dev@flink.apache.org>; user <u...@flink.apache.org> >> > *Subject:* Re: [Discuss] Creating an Apache Flink slack workspace >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > Regarding using ASF slack. I share the problems I saw in the Apache >> Druid >> > community. [1] >> > >> > > As you may have heard, it’s become increasingly difficult for new >> users >> > without an @apache.org email address to join the ASF #druid Slack >> channel. >> > ASF Infra disabled the option to publicly provide a link to the >> workspace >> > to anyone who wanted it, after encountering issues with spammers. >> > >> > > Per Infra’s guidance (https://infra.apache.org/slack.html), new >> > community >> > members should only be invited as single-channel guests. Unfortunately, >> > single-channel guests are unable to extend invitations to new members, >> > including their colleagues who are using Druid. Only someone with full >> > member privileges is able to extend an invitation to new members. This >> lack >> > of consistency doesn’t make the community feel inclusive. >> > >> > > There is a workaround in place ( >> > https://github.com/apache/druid-website-src/pull/278) – users can send >> an >> > email to druid-u...@googlegroups.com to request an invite to the Slack >> > channel from an existing member – but this still poses a barrier to >> entry, >> > and isn’t a viable permanent solution. It also creates potential privacy >> > issues as not everyone is at liberty to announce they’re using Druid nor >> > wishes to display their email address in a public forum. >> > >> > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/f36tvfwfo2ssf1x3jb4q0v2pftdyo5z5 >> > >> > Best, >> > Jingsong >> > >> > On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 10:22 AM Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > To make some progress, maybe we decide on chat vs forum vs none and >> then >> > >> go into a deeper discussion on the implementation or is there >> anything >> > >> about Slack that would be complete blocker for the implementation? >> > >> >> > > >> > > Sure, then I'd be +1 for chat. From my side, the initiative is more >> about >> > > making communication more efficient, rather than making information >> > easier >> > > to find. >> > > >> > > Thank you~ >> > > >> > > Xintong Song >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 5:39 PM Konstantin Knauf <kna...@apache.org> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > >> I don't think we can maintain two additional channels. Some people >> have >> > >> already concerns about covering one additional channel. >> > >> >> > >> I think, a forum provides a better user experience than a mailing >> list. >> > >> Information is structured better, you can edit messages, sign up and >> > search >> > >> is easier. >> > >> >> > >> To make some progress, maybe we decide on chat vs forum vs none and >> then >> > >> go into a deeper discussion on the implementation or is there >> anything >> > >> about Slack that would be complete blocker for the implementation? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Am Mi., 11. Mai 2022 um 07:35 Uhr schrieb Xintong Song < >> > >> tonysong...@gmail.com>: >> > >> >> > >>> I agree with Robert on reworking the "Community" and "Getting Help" >> > >>> pages to emphasize how we position the mailing lists and Slack, and >> on >> > >>> revisiting in 6-12 months. >> > >>> >> > >>> Concerning dedicated Apache Flink Slack vs. ASF Slack, I'm with >> > >>> Konstantin. I'd expect it to be easier for having more channels and >> > keeping >> > >>> them organized, managing permissions for different roles, adding >> bots, >> > etc. >> > >>> >> > >>> IMO, having Slack is about improving the communication efficiency >> when >> > >>> you are already in a discussion, and we expect such improvement >> would >> > >>> motivate users to interact more with each other. From that >> perspective, >> > >>> forums are not much better than mailing lists. >> > >>> >> > >>> I'm also open to forums as well, but not as an alternative to >> Slack. I >> > >>> definitely see how forums help in keeping information organized and >> > easy to >> > >>> find. However, I'm a bit concerned about the maintenance overhead. >> I'm >> > not >> > >>> very familiar with Discourse or Reddit. My impression is that they >> are >> > not >> > >>> as easy to set up and maintain as Slack. >> > >>> >> > >>> Thank you~ >> > >>> >> > >>> Xintong Song >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> [1] https://asktug.com/ >> > >>> >> > >>> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 4:50 PM Konstantin Knauf <kna...@apache.org >> > >> > >>> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> Thanks for starting this discussion again. I am pretty much with >> Timo >> > >>>> here. Slack or Discourse as an alternative for the user community, >> and >> > >>>> mailing list for the contributing, design discussion, etc. I >> > definitely see >> > >>>> the friction of joining a mailing list and understand if users are >> > >>>> intimidated. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> I am leaning towards a forum aka Discourse over a chat aka Slack. >> This >> > >>>> is about asking for help, finding information and thoughtful >> > discussion >> > >>>> more so than casual chatting, right? For this a forum, where it is >> > easier >> > >>>> to find and comment on older threads and topics just makes more >> sense >> > to >> > >>>> me. A well-done Discourse forum is much more inviting and vibrant >> > than a >> > >>>> mailing list. Just from a tool perspective, discourse would have >> the >> > >>>> advantage of being Open Source and so we could probably self-host >> it >> > on an >> > >>>> ASF machine. [1] >> > >>>> >> > >>>> When it comes to Slack, I definitely see the benefit of a dedicated >> > >>>> Apache Flink Slack compared to ASF Slack. For example, we could >> have >> > more >> > >>>> channels (e.g. look how many channels Airflow is using >> > >>>> http://apache-airflow.slack-archives.org) and we could generally >> > >>>> customize the experience more towards Apache Flink. If we go for >> > Slack, >> > >>>> let's definitely try to archive it like Airflow did. If we do >> this, we >> > >>>> don't necessarily need infinite message retention in Slack itself. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Cheers, >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Konstantin >> > >>>> >> > >>>> [1] https://github.com/discourse/discourse >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Am Di., 10. Mai 2022 um 10:20 Uhr schrieb Timo Walther < >> > >>>> twal...@apache.org>: >> > >>>> >> > >>>>> I also think that a real-time channel is long overdue. The Flink >> > >>>>> community in China has shown that such a platform can be useful >> for >> > >>>>> improving the collaboration within the community. The DingTalk >> > channel of >> > >>>>> 10k+ users collectively helping each other is great to see. It >> could >> > also >> > >>>>> reduce the burden from committers for answering frequently asked >> > questions. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Personally, I'm a mailing list fan esp. when it comes to design >> > >>>>> discussions. In my opinion, the dev@ mailing list should >> definitely >> > >>>>> stay where and how it is. However, I understand that users might >> not >> > want >> > >>>>> to subscribe to a mailing list for a single question and get their >> > mailbox >> > >>>>> filled with unrelated discussions afterwards. Esp. in a company >> > setting it >> > >>>>> might not be easy to setup a dedicated email address for mailing >> > lists and >> > >>>>> setting up rules is also not convenient. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> It would be great if we could use the ASF Slack. We should find an >> > >>>>> official, accessible channel. I would be open for the right tool. >> It >> > might >> > >>>>> make sense to also look into Discourse or even Reddit? The latter >> > would >> > >>>>> definitely be easier to index by a search engine. Discourse is >> > actually >> > >>>>> made for modern real-time forums. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Regards, >> > >>>>> Timo >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Am 10.05.22 um 09:59 schrieb David Anderson: >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Thank you @Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> for sharing the >> > >>>>> experience of the Flink China community. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> I'm become convinced we should give Slack a try, both for >> discussions >> > >>>>> among the core developers, and as a place where the community can >> > reach out >> > >>>>> for help. I am in favor of using the ASF slack, as we will need a >> > paid >> > >>>>> instance for this to go well, and joining it is easy enough (took >> me >> > about >> > >>>>> 2 minutes). Thanks, Robert, for suggesting we go down this route. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> David >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 8:21 AM Robert Metzger < >> rmetz...@apache.org> >> > >>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> It seems that we'd have to use invite links on the Flink website >> for >> > >>>>>> people to join our Slack (1) >> > >>>>>> These links can be configured to have no time-expiration, but >> they >> > >>>>>> will expire after 100 guests have joined. >> > >>>>>> I guess we'd have to use a URL shortener (https://s.apache.org) >> > that >> > >>>>>> we update once the invite link expires. It's not a nice solution, >> > but it'll >> > >>>>>> work. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> (1) >> https://the-asf.slack.com/archives/CBX4TSBQ8/p1652125017094159 >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 3:59 PM Robert Metzger < >> metrob...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> Thanks a lot for your answer. The onboarding experience to the >> ASF >> > >>>>>>> Slack is indeed not ideal: >> > >>>>>>> >> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/general/join#join-the-slack-channel >> > >>>>>>> I'll see if we can improve it >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 3:38 PM Martijn Visser < >> > >>>>>>> martijnvis...@apache.org> wrote: >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> As far as I recall you can't sign up for the ASF instance of >> > Slack, >> > >>>>>>>> you can >> > >>>>>>>> only get there if you're a committer or if you're invited by a >> > >>>>>>>> committer. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 at 15:15, Robert Metzger < >> metrob...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> > Sorry for joining this discussion late, and thanks for the >> > >>>>>>>> summary Xintong! >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > Why are we considering a separate slack instance instead of >> > using >> > >>>>>>>> the ASF >> > >>>>>>>> > Slack instance? >> > >>>>>>>> > The ASF instance is paid, so all messages are retained >> forever, >> > >>>>>>>> and quite >> > >>>>>>>> > a few people are already on that Slack instance. >> > >>>>>>>> > There is already a #flink channel on that Slack instance, >> that >> > we >> > >>>>>>>> could >> > >>>>>>>> > leave as passive as it is right now, or put some more effort >> > into >> > >>>>>>>> it, on a >> > >>>>>>>> > voluntary basis. >> > >>>>>>>> > We could add another #flink-dev channel to that Slack for >> > >>>>>>>> developer >> > >>>>>>>> > discussions, and a private flink-committer and flink-pmc >> chat. >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > If we are going that path, we should rework the "Community" >> and >> > >>>>>>>> "Getting >> > >>>>>>>> > Help" pages and explain that the mailing lists are the >> "ground >> > >>>>>>>> truth tools" >> > >>>>>>>> > in Flink, and Slack is only there to facilitate faster >> > >>>>>>>> communication, but >> > >>>>>>>> > it is optional / voluntary (e.g. a committers won't respond >> to >> > >>>>>>>> DMs) >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > All public #flink-* channels should be archived and >> > >>>>>>>> google-indexable. >> > >>>>>>>> > I've asked Jarek from Airflow who's maintaining >> > >>>>>>>> > http://apache-airflow.slack-archives.org. >> > >>>>>>>> > If we can't use slack-archives.org, it would be nice to find >> > some >> > >>>>>>>> > volunteers in the Flink community to hack a simple indexing >> > tool. >> > >>>>>>>> > The indexing part is very important for me, because of some >> bad >> > >>>>>>>> > experiences with the Kubernetes experience, where most of the >> > >>>>>>>> advanced >> > >>>>>>>> > stuff is hidden in their Slack, and it took me a few weeks to >> > >>>>>>>> find that >> > >>>>>>>> > goldmine of information. >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > Overall, I see this as an experiment worth doing, but I would >> > >>>>>>>> suggest >> > >>>>>>>> > revisiting it in 6 to 12 months: We should check if really >> all >> > >>>>>>>> important >> > >>>>>>>> > decisions are mirrored to the right mailing lists, and that >> we >> > >>>>>>>> get the >> > >>>>>>>> > benefits we hoped for (more adoption, better experience for >> > users >> > >>>>>>>> and >> > >>>>>>>> > developers), and that we can handle the concerns (DMs to >> > >>>>>>>> developers, >> > >>>>>>>> > indexing). >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> > On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 12:22 PM Xintong Song < >> > >>>>>>>> tonysong...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> > wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> Thanks all for the valuable feedback. >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> It seems most people are overall positive about using Slack >> for >> > >>>>>>>> dev >> > >>>>>>>> >> discussions, as long as they are properly reflected back to >> the >> > >>>>>>>> MLs. >> > >>>>>>>> >> - We definitely need a code of conduct that clearly >> specifies >> > >>>>>>>> what people >> > >>>>>>>> >> should / should not do. >> > >>>>>>>> >> - Contributors pinging well-known reviewers /committers, I >> > think >> > >>>>>>>> that also >> > >>>>>>>> >> happens now on JIRA / Github. Personally, I'd understand a >> > >>>>>>>> no-reply as a >> > >>>>>>>> >> "soft no". We may consider to also put that in the cod of >> > >>>>>>>> conduct. >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> Concerning using Slack for user QAs, it seem the major >> concern >> > >>>>>>>> is that, we >> > >>>>>>>> >> may end up repeatedly answering the same questions from >> > >>>>>>>> different users, >> > >>>>>>>> >> due to lack of capacity for archiving and searching >> historical >> > >>>>>>>> >> conversations. TBH, I don't have a good solution for the >> > >>>>>>>> archivability and >> > >>>>>>>> >> searchability. I investigated some tools like Zapier [1], >> but >> > >>>>>>>> none of them >> > >>>>>>>> >> seems suitable for us. However, I'd like to share 2 >> arguments. >> > >>>>>>>> >> - The purpose of Slack is to make the communication more >> > >>>>>>>> efficient? By >> > >>>>>>>> >> *efficient*, I mean saving time for both question askers and >> > >>>>>>>> helpers with >> > >>>>>>>> >> instance messages, file transmissions, even voice / video >> > calls, >> > >>>>>>>> etc. >> > >>>>>>>> >> (Especially for cases where back and forth is needed, as >> David >> > >>>>>>>> mentioned.) >> > >>>>>>>> >> It does not mean questions that do not get enough >> attentions on >> > >>>>>>>> MLs are >> > >>>>>>>> >> now >> > >>>>>>>> >> guaranteed to be answered immediately. We can probably put >> that >> > >>>>>>>> into the >> > >>>>>>>> >> code of conduct, and kindly guide users to first search and >> > >>>>>>>> initiate >> > >>>>>>>> >> questions on MLs. >> > >>>>>>>> >> - I'd also like to share some experience from the Flink >> China >> > >>>>>>>> community. >> > >>>>>>>> >> We >> > >>>>>>>> >> have 3 DingTalk groups with totally 25k members (might be >> less, >> > >>>>>>>> I didn't >> > >>>>>>>> >> do >> > >>>>>>>> >> deduplication), posting hundreds of messages daily. What I'm >> > >>>>>>>> really >> > >>>>>>>> >> excited >> > >>>>>>>> >> about is that, there are way more interactions between >> users & >> > >>>>>>>> users than >> > >>>>>>>> >> between users & developers. Users are helping each other, >> > sharing >> > >>>>>>>> >> experiences, sending screenshots / log files / >> documentations >> > >>>>>>>> and solving >> > >>>>>>>> >> problems together. We the developers seldom get pinged, if >> not >> > >>>>>>>> proactively >> > >>>>>>>> >> joined the conversations. The DingTalk groups are way more >> > >>>>>>>> active compared >> > >>>>>>>> >> to the user-zh@ ML, which I'd attribute to the improvement >> of >> > >>>>>>>> interaction >> > >>>>>>>> >> experiences. Admittedly, there are questions being >> repeatedly >> > >>>>>>>> asked & >> > >>>>>>>> >> answered, but TBH I don't think that compares to the benefit >> > of a >> > >>>>>>>> >> self-driven user community. I'd really love to see if we can >> > >>>>>>>> bring such >> > >>>>>>>> >> success to the global English-speaking community. >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> Concerning StackOverFlow, it definitely worth more attention >> > >>>>>>>> from the >> > >>>>>>>> >> community. Thanks for the suggestion / reminder, Piotr & >> David. >> > >>>>>>>> I think >> > >>>>>>>> >> Slack and StackOverFlow are probably not mutual exclusive. >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> Thank you~ >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> Xintong Song >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> [1] https://zapier.com/ >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 9:50 AM Jingsong Li < >> > >>>>>>>> jingsongl...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> >> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > Most of the open source communities I know have set up >> their >> > >>>>>>>> slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> > channels, such as Apache Iceberg [1], Apache Druid [2], >> etc. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > So I think slack can be worth trying. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > David is right, there are some cases that need to >> communicate >> > >>>>>>>> back and >> > >>>>>>>> >> > forth, slack communication will be more effective. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > But back to the question, ultimately it's about whether >> there >> > >>>>>>>> are >> > >>>>>>>> >> > enough core developers willing to invest time in the >> slack, >> > to >> > >>>>>>>> >> > discuss, to answer questions, to communicate. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > And whether there will be enough time to reply to the >> mailing >> > >>>>>>>> list and >> > >>>>>>>> >> > stackoverflow after we put in the slack (which we need to >> > do). >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > [1] https://iceberg.apache.org/community/#slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> > [2] https://druid.apache.org/community/ >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 10:06 PM David Anderson < >> > >>>>>>>> dander...@apache.org> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > I have mixed feelings about this. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > I have been rather visible on stack overflow, and as a >> > >>>>>>>> result I get a >> > >>>>>>>> >> > lot of DMs asking for help. I enjoy helping, but want to >> do >> > it >> > >>>>>>>> on a >> > >>>>>>>> >> > platform where the responses can be searched and shared. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > It is currently the case that good questions on stack >> > >>>>>>>> overflow >> > >>>>>>>> >> > frequently go unanswered because no one with the necessary >> > >>>>>>>> expertise >> > >>>>>>>> >> takes >> > >>>>>>>> >> > the time to respond. If the Flink community has the >> > collective >> > >>>>>>>> energy >> > >>>>>>>> >> to do >> > >>>>>>>> >> > more user outreach, more involvement on stack overflow >> would >> > >>>>>>>> be a good >> > >>>>>>>> >> > place to start. Adding slack as another way for users to >> > >>>>>>>> request help >> > >>>>>>>> >> from >> > >>>>>>>> >> > those who are already actively providing support on the >> > >>>>>>>> existing >> > >>>>>>>> >> > communication channels might just lead to burnout. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > On the other hand, there are rather rare, but very >> > >>>>>>>> interesting cases >> > >>>>>>>> >> > where considerable back and forth is needed to figure out >> > >>>>>>>> what's going >> > >>>>>>>> >> on. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > This can happen, for example, when the requirements are >> > >>>>>>>> unusual, or >> > >>>>>>>> >> when a >> > >>>>>>>> >> > difficult to diagnose bug is involved. In these >> > circumstances, >> > >>>>>>>> something >> > >>>>>>>> >> > like slack is much better suited than email or stack >> > overflow. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > David >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 3:04 PM Becket Qin < >> > >>>>>>>> becket....@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> >> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> Thanks for the proposal, Xintong. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> While I share the same concerns as those mentioned in >> the >> > >>>>>>>> previous >> > >>>>>>>> >> > discussion thread, admittedly there are benefits of >> having a >> > >>>>>>>> slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> channel >> > >>>>>>>> >> > as a supplementary way to discuss Flink. The fact that >> this >> > >>>>>>>> topic is >> > >>>>>>>> >> raised >> > >>>>>>>> >> > once a while indicates lasting interests. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> Personally I am open to having such a slack channel. >> > >>>>>>>> Although it has >> > >>>>>>>> >> > drawbacks, it serves a different purpose. I'd imagine that >> > for >> > >>>>>>>> people >> > >>>>>>>> >> who >> > >>>>>>>> >> > prefer instant messaging, in absence of the slack >> channel, a >> > >>>>>>>> lot of >> > >>>>>>>> >> > discussions might just take place offline today, which >> leaves >> > >>>>>>>> no public >> > >>>>>>>> >> > record at all. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> One step further, if the channel is maintained by the >> > Flink >> > >>>>>>>> PMC, some >> > >>>>>>>> >> > kind of code of conduct might be necessary. I think the >> > >>>>>>>> suggestions of >> > >>>>>>>> >> > ad-hoc conversations, reflecting back to the emails are >> good >> > >>>>>>>> starting >> > >>>>>>>> >> > points. I am +1 to give it a try and see how it goes. In >> the >> > >>>>>>>> worst >> > >>>>>>>> >> case, we >> > >>>>>>>> >> > can just stop doing this and come back to where we are >> right >> > >>>>>>>> now. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> Thanks, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 8:55 PM Martijn Visser < >> > >>>>>>>> mart...@ververica.com >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> Hi everyone, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> While I see Slack having a major downside (the results >> > are >> > >>>>>>>> not >> > >>>>>>>> >> indexed >> > >>>>>>>> >> > by external search engines, you can't link directly to >> Slack >> > >>>>>>>> content >> > >>>>>>>> >> unless >> > >>>>>>>> >> > you've signed up), I do think that the open source space >> has >> > >>>>>>>> progressed >> > >>>>>>>> >> and >> > >>>>>>>> >> > that Slack is considered as something that's invaluable to >> > >>>>>>>> users. There >> > >>>>>>>> >> are >> > >>>>>>>> >> > other Apache programs that also run it, like Apache >> Airflow >> > >>>>>>>> [1]. I also >> > >>>>>>>> >> see >> > >>>>>>>> >> > it as a potential option to create a more active >> community. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> A concern I can see is that users will start DMing >> > >>>>>>>> well-known >> > >>>>>>>> >> > reviewers/committers to get a review or a PR merged. That >> can >> > >>>>>>>> cause a >> > >>>>>>>> >> lot >> > >>>>>>>> >> > of noise. I can go +1 for Slack, but then we need to >> > establish >> > >>>>>>>> a set of >> > >>>>>>>> >> > community rules. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> Best regards, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> Martijn >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> [1] https://airflow.apache.org/community/ >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 13:59, Piotr Nowojski < >> > >>>>>>>> pnowoj...@apache.org> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Hi Xintong, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> I'm not sure if slack is the right tool for the job. >> IMO >> > >>>>>>>> it works >> > >>>>>>>> >> > great as >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> an adhoc tool for discussion between developers, but >> > it's >> > >>>>>>>> not >> > >>>>>>>> >> > searchable >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> and it's not persistent. Between devs, it works >> fine, as >> > >>>>>>>> long as >> > >>>>>>>> >> the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > result >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> of the ad hoc discussions is backported to >> JIRA/mailing >> > >>>>>>>> list/design >> > >>>>>>>> >> > doc. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> For users, that simply would be extremely difficult >> to >> > >>>>>>>> achieve. In >> > >>>>>>>> >> the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> result, I would be afraid we are answering the same >> > >>>>>>>> questions over, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > and >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> over and over again, without even a way to provide a >> > link >> > >>>>>>>> to the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > previous >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> thread, because nobody can search for it . >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> I'm +1 for having an open and shared slack >> space/channel >> > >>>>>>>> for the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> contributors, but I think I would be -1 for such >> > channels >> > >>>>>>>> for the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > users. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> For users, I would prefer to focus more on, for >> example, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > stackoverflow. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> With upvoting, clever sorting of the answers (not the >> > >>>>>>>> oldest/newest >> > >>>>>>>> >> > at top) >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> it's easily searchable - those features make it fit >> our >> > >>>>>>>> use case >> > >>>>>>>> >> much >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> better IMO. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Best, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Piotrek >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> pt., 6 maj 2022 o 11:08 Xintong Song < >> > >>>>>>>> tonysong...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > napisał(a): >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Thank you~ >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Xintong Song >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > From: Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Date: Fri, May 6, 2022 at 5:07 PM >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Subject: Re: [Discuss] Creating an Apache Flink >> slack >> > >>>>>>>> workspace >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > To: private <priv...@flink.apache.org> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Cc: Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Hi Chesnay, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't find this is >> > >>>>>>>> *repeatedly* >> > >>>>>>>> >> > discussed on the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > ML. The only discussions I find are [1] & [2], >> which >> > >>>>>>>> are 4 years >> > >>>>>>>> >> > ago. On >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > the other hand, I do find many users are asking >> > >>>>>>>> questions about >> > >>>>>>>> >> > whether >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Slack should be supported [2][3][4]. Besides, I >> also >> > >>>>>>>> find a >> > >>>>>>>> >> recent >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > discussion thread from ComDev [5], where >> alternative >> > >>>>>>>> >> communication >> > >>>>>>>> >> > channels >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > are being discussed. It seems to me ASF is quite >> open >> > >>>>>>>> to having >> > >>>>>>>> >> such >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > additional channels and they have been worked well >> for >> > >>>>>>>> many >> > >>>>>>>> >> projects >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > already. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > I see two reasons for brining this discussion >> again: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > 1. There are indeed many things that have change >> > during >> > >>>>>>>> the past >> > >>>>>>>> >> 4 >> > >>>>>>>> >> > years. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > We have more contributors, including committers and >> > PMC >> > >>>>>>>> members, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > and even >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > more users from various organizations and >> timezones. >> > >>>>>>>> That also >> > >>>>>>>> >> > means more >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > discussions and Q&As are happening. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > 2. The proposal here is different from the previous >> > >>>>>>>> discussion. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > Instead of >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > maintaining a channel for Flink in the ASF >> workspace, >> > >>>>>>>> here we are >> > >>>>>>>> >> > proposing >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > to create a dedicated Apache Flink slack workspace. >> > And >> > >>>>>>>> instead >> > >>>>>>>> >> of >> > >>>>>>>> >> > *moving* >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > the discussion to Slack, we are proposing to add a >> > Slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> Workspace >> > >>>>>>>> >> > as an >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > addition to the ML. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Below is your opinions that I found from your >> previous >> > >>>>>>>> -1 [1]. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > IIUR, these >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > are all about the using ASF Slack Workspace. If I >> > >>>>>>>> overlooked >> > >>>>>>>> >> > anything, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > please let me know. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > 1. According to INFRA-14292 < >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-14292> >> > >>>>>>>> the ASF >> > >>>>>>>> >> Slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> > isn't >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > run by the ASF. This alone puts this service into >> > >>>>>>>> rather >> > >>>>>>>> >> > questionable >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > territory as it /looks/ like an official ASF >> > service. >> > >>>>>>>> If anyone >> > >>>>>>>> >> > can >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > provide >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > information to the contrary, please do so. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > 2. We already discuss things on the mailing lists, >> > JIRA >> > >>>>>>>> and >> > >>>>>>>> >> GitHub. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > All of >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > these are available to the public, whereas the >> slack >> > >>>>>>>> channel >> > >>>>>>>> >> > requires an >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > @apache mail address, i.e. you have to be a >> > >>>>>>>> committer. This >> > >>>>>>>> >> > minimizes the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > target audience rather significantly. I would >> much >> > >>>>>>>> rather >> > >>>>>>>> >> prefer >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > something >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > that is also available to contributors. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > I do agree this should be decided by the whole >> > >>>>>>>> community. I'll >> > >>>>>>>> >> > forward this >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > to dev@ and user@ ML. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Thank you~ >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Xintong Song >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > [1] >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/gxwv49ssq82g06dbhy339x6rdxtlcv3d >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > [2] >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/kcym1sozkrtwxw1fjbnwk1nqrrlzolcc >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > [3] >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/7rmd3ov6sv3wwhflp97n4czz25hvmqm6 >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > [4] >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/n5y1kzv50bkkbl3ys494dglyxl45bmts >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > [5] >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/fzwd3lj0x53hkq3od5ot0y719dn3kj1j >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 3:05 PM Chesnay Schepler < >> > >>>>>>>> >> ches...@apache.org >> > >>>>>>>> >> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > This has been repeatedly discussed on the ML over >> > the >> > >>>>>>>> years and >> > >>>>>>>> >> > was >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > rejected every time. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > I don't see that anything has changed that would >> > >>>>>>>> invalidate the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > previously >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > raised arguments against it, so I'm still -1 on >> it. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > This is also not something the PMC should decide >> > >>>>>>>> anyway, but >> > >>>>>>>> >> the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > project >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > as a whole. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > On 06/05/2022 06:48, Jark Wu wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > Thank Xintong, for starting this exciting topic. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > I think Slack would be an essential addition to >> the >> > >>>>>>>> mailing >> > >>>>>>>> >> list. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > I have talked with some Flink users, and they are >> > >>>>>>>> surprised >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > Flink doesn't have Slack yet, and they would >> love to >> > >>>>>>>> use Slack. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > We can also see a trend that new open-source >> > >>>>>>>> communities >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > are using Slack as the community base camp. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > Slack is also helpful for brainstorming and >> asking >> > >>>>>>>> people for >> > >>>>>>>> >> > opinions >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > and >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > use cases. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > I think Slack is not only another place for Q&A >> but >> > >>>>>>>> also a >> > >>>>>>>> >> > connection to >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > the Flink users. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > We can create more channels to make the community >> > >>>>>>>> have more >> > >>>>>>>> >> social >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > attributes, for example, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > - Share ideas, projects, integrations, articles, >> > and >> > >>>>>>>> >> > presentations >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > related to Flink in the #shows channel >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > - Flink releases, events in the #news channel >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > Thus, I'm +1 to create an Apache Flink slack, >> and I >> > >>>>>>>> can help >> > >>>>>>>> >> set >> > >>>>>>>> >> > up the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > Flink slack and maintain it. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > Best, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > Jark >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 10:38, Xintong Song < >> > >>>>>>>> >> tonysong...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> Hi all, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> I’d like to start a discussion on creating an >> > Apache >> > >>>>>>>> Flink >> > >>>>>>>> >> slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> workspace. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> ## Motivation >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> Today many organizations choose to do real time >> > >>>>>>>> communication >> > >>>>>>>> >> > through >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> slack. IMHO, we, Flink, as a technique for real >> > time >> > >>>>>>>> >> computing, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > should >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> embrace the more real time way for >> communication, >> > >>>>>>>> especially >> > >>>>>>>> >> for >> > >>>>>>>> >> > ad-hoc >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> questions and interactions. With more and more >> > >>>>>>>> contributors >> > >>>>>>>> >> from >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > different >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> organizations joining this community, it would >> be >> > >>>>>>>> good to >> > >>>>>>>> >> > provide a >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > common >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> channel for such real time communications. >> > >>>>>>>> Therefore, I'd >> > >>>>>>>> >> > propose to >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > create >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> an Apache Flink slack workspace that is >> maintained >> > >>>>>>>> by the >> > >>>>>>>> >> Flink >> > >>>>>>>> >> > PMC. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> ## Benefits >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> - Easier to reach out to people. Messages are >> less >> > >>>>>>>> likely >> > >>>>>>>> >> > overlooked. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> - Realtime messages, voice / video calls, file >> > >>>>>>>> transmissions >> > >>>>>>>> >> > that help >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> improve the communication efficiency. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> - Finer-grained channels (e.g., flink-ml, >> > >>>>>>>> flink-statefun, >> > >>>>>>>> >> > temporal >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> discussion channels for specific topics, etc.). >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> ## Relationship with the mailing lists >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> I think the slack workspace should be an >> extension >> > >>>>>>>> rather >> > >>>>>>>> >> than a >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> replacement of the mailing lists. Community >> members >> > >>>>>>>> should >> > >>>>>>>> >> still >> > >>>>>>>> >> > be >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > able to >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> follow what’s going on from solely the mailing >> > >>>>>>>> lists. That >> > >>>>>>>> >> means: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> a) All the decisions, conclusions and important >> > >>>>>>>> opinions >> > >>>>>>>> >> should >> > >>>>>>>> >> > be >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> reflected back to the mailing lists. After all, >> > >>>>>>>> according to >> > >>>>>>>> >> the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > Apache >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> Way, if it didn’t happen on a mailing list, it >> > >>>>>>>> didn’t happen. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> b) We should encourage people to only ask ad hoc >> > >>>>>>>> questions on >> > >>>>>>>> >> > slack. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > Long >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> conversations (or ad hoc questions that grow >> long) >> > >>>>>>>> should be >> > >>>>>>>> >> > posted on >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> mailing lists, and can be referenced on slack >> for a >> > >>>>>>>> real time >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > discussion. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> ## Responsiveness >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> Using slack does not mean people being pinged >> need >> > >>>>>>>> to be >> > >>>>>>>> >> > responsive. We >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> are in an open-sourced community where all >> > >>>>>>>> contributors are >> > >>>>>>>> >> > volunteers. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> Slack should be used to make communication >> easier >> > >>>>>>>> only when >> > >>>>>>>> >> all >> > >>>>>>>> >> > the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > peers >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> are convenient. We should make it clear that >> people >> > >>>>>>>> should not >> > >>>>>>>> >> > expect >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> others to always be responsive. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> ## Archivability and searchability >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> One of the shortcomings that Slack is often >> > >>>>>>>> mentioned with is >> > >>>>>>>> >> > its lack >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > of >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> capability to archive conversations and to >> search >> > >>>>>>>> among them. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > There are >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> various tools that help address this >> problem[1]. As >> > >>>>>>>> a first >> > >>>>>>>> >> > step, we may >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> start with simply relying on reflecting things >> back >> > >>>>>>>> to the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > mailing >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > lists. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> IMHO, if everything important is properly >> reflected >> > >>>>>>>> back to >> > >>>>>>>> >> the >> > >>>>>>>> >> > mailing >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> lists, we don’t really need the archivability >> and >> > >>>>>>>> >> searchability. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> ## Other communities >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> AFAIK, there are many popular open-source >> projects >> > >>>>>>>> (Apache >> > >>>>>>>> >> > hosted or >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > not) >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> that have their own Slack workspace: AirFlow >> [2], >> > >>>>>>>> IceBerg [3], >> > >>>>>>>> >> > HBase [4] >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> etc. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> To name the Slack workspace with Apache Flink, >> we >> > >>>>>>>> would need >> > >>>>>>>> >> an >> > >>>>>>>> >> > official >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> vote and approval from the PMC members. But >> before >> > >>>>>>>> we get to >> > >>>>>>>> >> > that, I’d >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > like >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> to hear more about what you think. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> Thank you~ >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> Xintong Song >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> [1] http://apache-airflow.slack-archives.org >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> [2] https://airflow.apache.org/community >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> [3] https://iceberg.apache.org/community/#slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> [4] >> > >>>>>>>> >> https://hbase.apache.org/book.html#trouble.resources.slack >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> -- >> > >>>> https://twitter.com/snntrable >> > >>>> https://github.com/knaufk >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> https://twitter.com/snntrable >> > >> https://github.com/knaufk >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >
