Hi all Thanks for your input, Hen!
It's truly been a while since I last contributed anything to the HiveMind project. But it actually looks like I might get back to work on Java projects in about a month's time (nice change after 2 years of PL/SQL...) and I am still very much into HiveMind! And I think it's great seeing people here in Switzerland interested in HiveMind. I think trying to finally get a 1.2 release out the door would be a very good step towards breathing some life back into the project. Cheers --knut On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thought I'd hop in with some thoughts - I'm not a Hivemind user, but > have been on the list for a while and have some ASF experience. > > On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:05 AM, James Carman > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I don't believe we can just let folks in as committers without seeing >> a pattern of quality patches/contributions (unless perhaps they're a >> contributor to another ASF project). > > Agreed - in your current situation, be very open to anyone who happens > to be a committer at the ASF, but you still have to see non-committers > people showing commitment before granting karma. > >> I can take care of cutting the releases. I've learned more about >> doing releases since working on Commons Proxy, so it shouldn't take me >> as long to get them out the door. I would need to look at our build >> and make sure it's up to date with Maven2 (it's easier to do releases >> for me that way). > > Yep. Step 1 is that someone needs to be prepared to step up and release > manage. > > This really means doing the actual release when the time comes AND > applying patches from the issue tracker. It doesn't mean the project > management aspects. > > So: > > #1 James volunteering as the man with the karma. > > Next up you need someone who can step up and organize things. This > means trawling through the issue tracker, > http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HIVEMIND. If I was looking at > doing that, here would be my first steps: > > Look at the JIRA. Some things jump out. > > #1 there is an open issue on the released 4.1.2 version - that needs > fixing. Investigate and send an email on how to fix. > #2 there are 4 issues under 1.2 [wtf... 4.1.2 and 1.2?]. Work out the > version structure for Hivemind. Is 1.2 the next release? > #3 Assuming 1.2 is the next one, send an email asking for a 1.3 or > LATER-THAN-1.2 version. > #3.1 I'd be concerned about the 2.0-alpha-1 issue. Weird. > #4 Look through the 74 tickets without version, and put together a > wiki page if not a committer, or make the changes to jira themselves > if a committer, as to which issue should go in 1.2 and which should go > in LATER-THAN-1.2. Generally you'll want improvements with patches to > be in 1.2, and all bugs; and improvements without patches go in > LATER-THAN-1.2. > #5 for the 1.2 patches, recommend the ones that should be applied and > report that to the list. Ideally this should be something that > everyone is doing. > > So... that's the role that someone needs to volunteer to do. Sorting > out the 74 issues - generally you should not have any issues in JIRA > that do not have a version (or a component, so I would also look at > the 9 component-less issues). If someone has the time to sit down and > start doing that; and keeps the mailing list hooked in, you'll be > surprised at how things start to move. > > Don't worry about 2.0 etc. To go from 1.1->1.2 takes the above. To go > from 1.x to 2.0 takes a development community who have gone through > the above. > > Hope that was worth reading :) > > Hen > >> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Achim Hügen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I must confess, that I'm using spring today in all new projects. >>> It's difficult to resists the power of the spring movement. >>> It has excellent documentation, a very active community and broad tool >>> support. >>> The differences to HiveMind are subtle and not suited for convincing >>> project stakeholders to use it instead of Spring, I fear. >>> >>> Nevertheless if somebody volunteers to keep HiveMind alive I would >>> appreciate it. >>> We could give you commit rights as soon as possible and at least some >>> support if questions >>> on releasing or architecture arise. >>> If you want to get a committer, just be immodest and start a vote, proposing >>> yourself as committer. >>> >>> Achim >>> >>> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: >>>> >>>> OK, let's summarize :-) >>>> >>>> There *is* some interest in Hivemind left, at least there were 4 or 5 >>>> people giving answers to the board report. >>>> >From my point of view we need somebody to take the lead :-) In most posts >>>> (this was true for the last board report in February, too) there is a >>>> "maybe", "we should" and so on, but no one who actually decides something >>>> and put it on the road ... >>>> As I mentioned now for two or three times I know not much about the >>>> structures of an open source project inside Apache, so I can be terribly >>>> wrong, but: It seems like there should be a group of people that is >>>> responsible for each project. In case of Hivemind there are not much people >>>> left from that group, even not enough to put some other peoples in charge. >>>> For example, there is no one who says: OK, Johan, go on, apply the patches >>>> and prepare a release! >>>> All what is said is a bit vague without concrete plan ... >>>> For me, (based on my observations in this mailing list, don't want to >>>> offend someone) there are only two (perhaps three) persons at the moment, >>>> who could fill that gap: >>>> James, Johan (and perhaps Achim, but he seems to be very busy, too). >>>> >>>> Whoever takes the lead should make a concrete, but perhaps very small plan >>>> for the very near future and ask the people who showed interest to follow >>>> this plan and assign tasks to them. Then we can see if the interest is >>>> really big enough to start some bigger efforts and if it is really worth to >>>> start a discussion about the future of HiveMind ... >>>> To come to that discussion: >>>> If the Hivemind-vs-Spring - Philosophy article from Howard is still true >>>> now, 4 years later, there *is* some difference in the philosophy of both >>>> packages. And, if this differences still exists, this implies that you do >>>> things in a slightly different way - even if it is possible to achieve the >>>> almost same result in Spring. Without knowing Spring much it sounds like >>>> you >>>> end up with a different application design ... A different application >>>> design would be a good reason to choose one or another package, so this >>>> alone would justify the existence of HiveMind as a standalone project. Or >>>> is >>>> this difference to small? What are the things we can do with Hivemind we >>>> can't do with Spring? >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jochen >>>> >>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: Johan Lindquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. >>>> Mai 2008 11:12 >>>> An: [email protected] >>>> Betreff: Re: AW: HiveMind for Applications >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>> >>>> As a start, maybe we should call for all interested parties to have a >>>> look at issues (focusing on bugs primarily) and use the JIRA voting >>>> system. This would give us a good hint as to what is immediately >>>> wanted/needed. I can in parallel take a look to try to summarize >>>> outstanding issues as well ... >>>> >>>> It would also be nice perhaps to add a couple of new versions to JIRA >>>> (1.2, 1.2.1 or even 1.3) and re-assign pending maintenance and >>>> enhancements for 1.X - giving us small roadmap to work against. >>>> Emphasis on 'maintenance updates' at the moment, to see where the wind >>>> takes it ... >>>> >>>> Jochen, a couple of Howards posts relating to Spring/Hivemind >>>> differences below - somewhat outdated, but a start ... >>>> >>>> http://tapestryjava.blogspot.com/2004/02/comparing-hivemind-to-spring.html >>>> >>>> http://tapestryjava.blogspot.com/2004/06/hivemind-vs-spring-philosophy.html >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Johan >>>> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>>> | Yesterday evening I scanned all the JIRA Issues. >>>> | I found quite a few bugs where patches already exists. As I see it >>>> there are 78 issues, but only 13 bugs without a patch. All other issues >>>> do have patches or are improvements, wishes or new feature requests (and >>>> there are also some with patches already included). >>>> |>From that 13 open bugs are some with comments that suggests that these >>>> "bugs" could be solved with a different approach or aren't bugs at all, >>>> some are for Hivemind 2.0 only, so I believe there are less than 10 real >>>> bugs left for Hivemind 1.1.1 ... >>>> | >>>> | Perhaps someone (Johan? :-) should scan the issues (and patches) and >>>> mark the ones (including feature requests) we need solved (or >>>> refactored) for a 1.2 release. I made an Excel sheet where I marked the >>>> issues that have patches supplied and the ones that are open, but I can >>>> only send this in the evening, because I'm at work now :-) >>>> | >>>> | To start a discussion for "give Hivemind a new reason of existence": >>>> | Could someone emphasise differences to Spring that exists at the moment? >>>> | There must be some differences, I think Howard did something like this >>>> in the past already, but I was not able to find the web page again where >>>> I read this ... this could be a good start for a discussion ... what do >>>> you think?? >>>> | >>>> | Cheers, >>>> | Jochen >>>> | >>>> | -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>> | Von: Johan Lindquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> | Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Mai 2008 08:44 >>>> | An: [email protected] >>>> | Betreff: Re: HiveMind for Applications >>>> | >>>> | Agree, but we should not forget the few faithfuls out there ;) And >>>> | there has been interest out there for a 1.2 from quite a few ... >>>> | >>>> | Would an option be to trickle out a 1.2 release while putting more >>>> | effort into re-defining Hivemind's reasons for not dying? >>>> | >>>> | Cheers, >>>> | >>>> | Johan >>>> | >>>> | Raffael Herzog wrote: >>>> | | Am Dienstag, 13. Mai 2008 15.04:43 schrieb James Carman: >>>> | |> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 7:57 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>> | |>> James - do you think that there is any chance that there will be >>>> any >>>> | |>> work on Hivemind in the future? Or is it really at its end? >>>> | |> I really don't know at this point. Spring is very pervasive and even >>>> | |> Howard stopped using HiveMind on Tapestry (our biggest source of >>>> | |> customers by far) in version 5. I actually use Spring myself now. >>>> | | >>>> | | I think, this is exactly HiveMind's problem: In that moment, when >>>> | Tapestry >>>> | | stopped using HiveMind, HiveMind basically lost it's reason of >>>> existence. >>>> | | There are now two options: >>>> | | a) we let it die >>>> | | b) we give it a new reason of existence >>>> | | >>>> | | This might also include throwing away some existing efforts for 1.2 or >>>> | 2.0, >>>> | | no replacement planned. *might*, not *must*! >>>> | | >>>> | | I think, if we want to get HiveMind back to life, we should be open to >>>> | take >>>> | | some drastic measures. >>>> | | Cheers, >>>> | | Raffi >>>> | | >>>> | >>>> >>>> - -- >>>> you too? >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >>>> >>>> iD8DBQFIKqzZpHYnED7evioRAjt/AJ9IXtMbFztUPE7ddNZfojYZOG2w/gCfUv2F >>>> XwQlhX9kjoncfz0QLuuTD5E= >>>> =SG3x >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >
