I would love to be able to send in the next board report with the text: "It's Alive! It's Alive!"
Don't think I wont! :) On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Knut Wannheden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all > > Thanks for your input, Hen! > > It's truly been a while since I last contributed anything to the > HiveMind project. But it actually looks like I might get back to work > on Java projects in about a month's time (nice change after 2 years of > PL/SQL...) and I am still very much into HiveMind! And I think it's > great seeing people here in Switzerland interested in HiveMind. > > I think trying to finally get a 1.2 release out the door would be a > very good step towards breathing some life back into the project. > > Cheers > > --knut > > On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Thought I'd hop in with some thoughts - I'm not a Hivemind user, but >> have been on the list for a while and have some ASF experience. >> >> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:05 AM, James Carman >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I don't believe we can just let folks in as committers without seeing >>> a pattern of quality patches/contributions (unless perhaps they're a >>> contributor to another ASF project). >> >> Agreed - in your current situation, be very open to anyone who happens >> to be a committer at the ASF, but you still have to see non-committers >> people showing commitment before granting karma. >> >>> I can take care of cutting the releases. I've learned more about >>> doing releases since working on Commons Proxy, so it shouldn't take me >>> as long to get them out the door. I would need to look at our build >>> and make sure it's up to date with Maven2 (it's easier to do releases >>> for me that way). >> >> Yep. Step 1 is that someone needs to be prepared to step up and release >> manage. >> >> This really means doing the actual release when the time comes AND >> applying patches from the issue tracker. It doesn't mean the project >> management aspects. >> >> So: >> >> #1 James volunteering as the man with the karma. >> >> Next up you need someone who can step up and organize things. This >> means trawling through the issue tracker, >> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HIVEMIND. If I was looking at >> doing that, here would be my first steps: >> >> Look at the JIRA. Some things jump out. >> >> #1 there is an open issue on the released 4.1.2 version - that needs >> fixing. Investigate and send an email on how to fix. >> #2 there are 4 issues under 1.2 [wtf... 4.1.2 and 1.2?]. Work out the >> version structure for Hivemind. Is 1.2 the next release? >> #3 Assuming 1.2 is the next one, send an email asking for a 1.3 or >> LATER-THAN-1.2 version. >> #3.1 I'd be concerned about the 2.0-alpha-1 issue. Weird. >> #4 Look through the 74 tickets without version, and put together a >> wiki page if not a committer, or make the changes to jira themselves >> if a committer, as to which issue should go in 1.2 and which should go >> in LATER-THAN-1.2. Generally you'll want improvements with patches to >> be in 1.2, and all bugs; and improvements without patches go in >> LATER-THAN-1.2. >> #5 for the 1.2 patches, recommend the ones that should be applied and >> report that to the list. Ideally this should be something that >> everyone is doing. >> >> So... that's the role that someone needs to volunteer to do. Sorting >> out the 74 issues - generally you should not have any issues in JIRA >> that do not have a version (or a component, so I would also look at >> the 9 component-less issues). If someone has the time to sit down and >> start doing that; and keeps the mailing list hooked in, you'll be >> surprised at how things start to move. >> >> Don't worry about 2.0 etc. To go from 1.1->1.2 takes the above. To go >> from 1.x to 2.0 takes a development community who have gone through >> the above. >> >> Hope that was worth reading :) >> >> Hen >> >>> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Achim Hügen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> I must confess, that I'm using spring today in all new projects. >>>> It's difficult to resists the power of the spring movement. >>>> It has excellent documentation, a very active community and broad tool >>>> support. >>>> The differences to HiveMind are subtle and not suited for convincing >>>> project stakeholders to use it instead of Spring, I fear. >>>> >>>> Nevertheless if somebody volunteers to keep HiveMind alive I would >>>> appreciate it. >>>> We could give you commit rights as soon as possible and at least some >>>> support if questions >>>> on releasing or architecture arise. >>>> If you want to get a committer, just be immodest and start a vote, >>>> proposing >>>> yourself as committer. >>>> >>>> Achim >>>> >>>> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: >>>>> >>>>> OK, let's summarize :-) >>>>> >>>>> There *is* some interest in Hivemind left, at least there were 4 or 5 >>>>> people giving answers to the board report. >>>>> >From my point of view we need somebody to take the lead :-) In most posts >>>>> (this was true for the last board report in February, too) there is a >>>>> "maybe", "we should" and so on, but no one who actually decides something >>>>> and put it on the road ... >>>>> As I mentioned now for two or three times I know not much about the >>>>> structures of an open source project inside Apache, so I can be terribly >>>>> wrong, but: It seems like there should be a group of people that is >>>>> responsible for each project. In case of Hivemind there are not much >>>>> people >>>>> left from that group, even not enough to put some other peoples in charge. >>>>> For example, there is no one who says: OK, Johan, go on, apply the patches >>>>> and prepare a release! >>>>> All what is said is a bit vague without concrete plan ... >>>>> For me, (based on my observations in this mailing list, don't want to >>>>> offend someone) there are only two (perhaps three) persons at the moment, >>>>> who could fill that gap: >>>>> James, Johan (and perhaps Achim, but he seems to be very busy, too). >>>>> >>>>> Whoever takes the lead should make a concrete, but perhaps very small plan >>>>> for the very near future and ask the people who showed interest to follow >>>>> this plan and assign tasks to them. Then we can see if the interest is >>>>> really big enough to start some bigger efforts and if it is really worth >>>>> to >>>>> start a discussion about the future of HiveMind ... >>>>> To come to that discussion: >>>>> If the Hivemind-vs-Spring - Philosophy article from Howard is still true >>>>> now, 4 years later, there *is* some difference in the philosophy of both >>>>> packages. And, if this differences still exists, this implies that you do >>>>> things in a slightly different way - even if it is possible to achieve the >>>>> almost same result in Spring. Without knowing Spring much it sounds like >>>>> you >>>>> end up with a different application design ... A different application >>>>> design would be a good reason to choose one or another package, so this >>>>> alone would justify the existence of HiveMind as a standalone project. Or >>>>> is >>>>> this difference to small? What are the things we can do with Hivemind we >>>>> can't do with Spring? >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Jochen >>>>> >>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>>> Von: Johan Lindquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. >>>>> Mai 2008 11:12 >>>>> An: [email protected] >>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: HiveMind for Applications >>>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>>> >>>>> As a start, maybe we should call for all interested parties to have a >>>>> look at issues (focusing on bugs primarily) and use the JIRA voting >>>>> system. This would give us a good hint as to what is immediately >>>>> wanted/needed. I can in parallel take a look to try to summarize >>>>> outstanding issues as well ... >>>>> >>>>> It would also be nice perhaps to add a couple of new versions to JIRA >>>>> (1.2, 1.2.1 or even 1.3) and re-assign pending maintenance and >>>>> enhancements for 1.X - giving us small roadmap to work against. >>>>> Emphasis on 'maintenance updates' at the moment, to see where the wind >>>>> takes it ... >>>>> >>>>> Jochen, a couple of Howards posts relating to Spring/Hivemind >>>>> differences below - somewhat outdated, but a start ... >>>>> >>>>> http://tapestryjava.blogspot.com/2004/02/comparing-hivemind-to-spring.html >>>>> >>>>> http://tapestryjava.blogspot.com/2004/06/hivemind-vs-spring-philosophy.html >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Johan >>>>> >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>>>> | Yesterday evening I scanned all the JIRA Issues. >>>>> | I found quite a few bugs where patches already exists. As I see it >>>>> there are 78 issues, but only 13 bugs without a patch. All other issues >>>>> do have patches or are improvements, wishes or new feature requests (and >>>>> there are also some with patches already included). >>>>> |>From that 13 open bugs are some with comments that suggests that these >>>>> "bugs" could be solved with a different approach or aren't bugs at all, >>>>> some are for Hivemind 2.0 only, so I believe there are less than 10 real >>>>> bugs left for Hivemind 1.1.1 ... >>>>> | >>>>> | Perhaps someone (Johan? :-) should scan the issues (and patches) and >>>>> mark the ones (including feature requests) we need solved (or >>>>> refactored) for a 1.2 release. I made an Excel sheet where I marked the >>>>> issues that have patches supplied and the ones that are open, but I can >>>>> only send this in the evening, because I'm at work now :-) >>>>> | >>>>> | To start a discussion for "give Hivemind a new reason of existence": >>>>> | Could someone emphasise differences to Spring that exists at the moment? >>>>> | There must be some differences, I think Howard did something like this >>>>> in the past already, but I was not able to find the web page again where >>>>> I read this ... this could be a good start for a discussion ... what do >>>>> you think?? >>>>> | >>>>> | Cheers, >>>>> | Jochen >>>>> | >>>>> | -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>>> | Von: Johan Lindquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> | Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Mai 2008 08:44 >>>>> | An: [email protected] >>>>> | Betreff: Re: HiveMind for Applications >>>>> | >>>>> | Agree, but we should not forget the few faithfuls out there ;) And >>>>> | there has been interest out there for a 1.2 from quite a few ... >>>>> | >>>>> | Would an option be to trickle out a 1.2 release while putting more >>>>> | effort into re-defining Hivemind's reasons for not dying? >>>>> | >>>>> | Cheers, >>>>> | >>>>> | Johan >>>>> | >>>>> | Raffael Herzog wrote: >>>>> | | Am Dienstag, 13. Mai 2008 15.04:43 schrieb James Carman: >>>>> | |> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 7:57 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> | |>> James - do you think that there is any chance that there will be >>>>> any >>>>> | |>> work on Hivemind in the future? Or is it really at its end? >>>>> | |> I really don't know at this point. Spring is very pervasive and even >>>>> | |> Howard stopped using HiveMind on Tapestry (our biggest source of >>>>> | |> customers by far) in version 5. I actually use Spring myself now. >>>>> | | >>>>> | | I think, this is exactly HiveMind's problem: In that moment, when >>>>> | Tapestry >>>>> | | stopped using HiveMind, HiveMind basically lost it's reason of >>>>> existence. >>>>> | | There are now two options: >>>>> | | a) we let it die >>>>> | | b) we give it a new reason of existence >>>>> | | >>>>> | | This might also include throwing away some existing efforts for 1.2 or >>>>> | 2.0, >>>>> | | no replacement planned. *might*, not *must*! >>>>> | | >>>>> | | I think, if we want to get HiveMind back to life, we should be open to >>>>> | take >>>>> | | some drastic measures. >>>>> | | Cheers, >>>>> | | Raffi >>>>> | | >>>>> | >>>>> >>>>> - -- >>>>> you too? >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >>>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >>>>> >>>>> iD8DBQFIKqzZpHYnED7evioRAjt/AJ9IXtMbFztUPE7ddNZfojYZOG2w/gCfUv2F >>>>> XwQlhX9kjoncfz0QLuuTD5E= >>>>> =SG3x >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
