Hi, In my opinion there should be only development discussions and important notifications on dev list. But I must say that I started to look through Jira and even GitHub notifications from time to time. And I find that it sometimes gives me a useful information like "contributor A is doing B". But I think that there will be no harm for me to check it on different mail list. чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 20:11, Vladimir Ozerov <voze...@gridgain.com>: > > Completely agree with Denis. Tons of generated messages and community > health are not relevant. Currently we obviously have too much tickets and > too little communications. This is bad. But whether we accumulate generated > stuff here or in some other place is not important at all, provided that we > can point dev-list readers to JIRA channel. And as far as generated stuff, > this was one of very serious concerns of our mentors during incubation > phase - too many tickets, too little real communications. Splitting message > flows will help us understand where we are. > > And another very interesting thing is how PMCs treat all these messages - > they ignore them. When I come with that problem, one PMC proposed solution > - "just filter them like I do". Then I, another PMC, answered - "I do not > know how to filter them". Finally, third PMC, who also filters these > messages, helped me create proper filter in GMail. > > Isn't it demonstrative enough that so many PMC, who are expected to > understand project very well and follow a lot of activities, find it useful > to *remove* JIRA emails from their inboxes in order to ... well ... > understand what is going on. If Ignite veterans do not find these generated > emails useful, then I do not know who else can benefit from them. > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 7:06 PM Denis Mekhanikov <dmekhani...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Dmitriy, > > > > > I do believe Igniters can set up a filter. > > I doesn't mean we should make them do it. > > > > How do JIRA messages help? > > If you want do discuss something – write to dev list. > > If you want a code review – write to dev list. > > If you have an announcement – write to dev list. > > I don't see, how JIRA messages can replace any of these points. > > > > Literally nobody ever answered a message from JIRA bot. > > I think, that only watchers of JIRA tickets should be notified about > > updates. > > There is no point in sending messages to everyone. > > > > Denis > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:50, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>: > > > > > I do believe Igniters can set up a filter. > > > > > > JIRA ticket is an intention to be done by contributors in future. > > > > > > If PMC member admits decisions are made off the list and just provided as > > > fact-in-the-past for others - it really signs poor community health. So > > for > > > me, it is not reasonable to fight with JIRA messages it is reasonable to > > > grow a culture of on-list development. If we don't have it, JIRA should > > > remain here. > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:30, Denis Mekhanikov <dmekhani...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > Dmitriy, > > > > > > > > If we want people to act openly and community-friendly, then we should > > > make > > > > it a part of the required development process. > > > > Otherwise people just won't care about it. > > > > Moreover, all JIRA tickets are open for everyone, so no openness would > > be > > > > violated if we made a separate mailing list for bots. > > > > JIRA tickets are just as easy to search through, as the emails. > > > > > > > > If you write anything to the dev list, then only the once, who spent > > half > > > > an hour, configuring the email filters will see it. > > > > Others won't notice it, because it will get lost among the flood of > > spam > > > > messages from bots. > > > > > > > > If you are interested in receiving the JIRA notifications, you could > > > > subscribe to ignite-bots (or even ignite-jira) mailing list, > > > > and keep track of what happens there. It would simplify filtering, > > > because > > > > you should only filter out the corresponding recipient. > > > > > > > > Currently if you want to filter out all messages from bots, you should > > > > enumerate all possible topics, that bots may generate. > > > > And since the number of bots only grows with time, the filter should be > > > > kept in actual state, otherwise messages will spill into the inbox. > > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:58, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > > > Hi Denis, > > > > > > > > > > Another side of this decision is the openness of the development. > > > > > > > > > > Since not all contributors pay attention to run their development in > > an > > > > > open/community friendly manner: > > > > > - to announce important features, and > > > > > - Telegraph their intent > > > > > - Draft designs openly > > > > > - Submit work in chunks > > > > > - Welcome feedback along the way > > > > > > > http://shaneslides.com/apachecon/TheApacheWay-ApacheConNA2018.html#24 > > > > > > > > > > we can't just remove JIRA from the list. > > > > > > > > > > Today JIRA forwarding is an only way to keep Ignite development easy > > to > > > > > follow by subscribing to dev. list. > > > > > > > > > > If we came to practice that all contributors announce important > > > features > > > > > and bugs, JIRA can be removed. Now it can't. > > > > > > > > > > Which problem we can solve by removing JIRA from the list? > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:34, Denis Mekhanikov < > > dmekhani...@gmail.com > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > I vote for moving automatically generated messages to a separate > > > > mailing > > > > > > list (maybe except most important ones). > > > > > > I already wrote about it here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Bots-on-dev-list-td34406.html > > > > > > > > > > > > What we have now makes the Nabble portal an absolute mess with no > > > > ability > > > > > > to track human communication. > > > > > > It's even hard to search for old discussions, because messages > > about > > > > JIRA > > > > > > tickets and git commit messages pop in the search results. > > > > > > > > > > > > Making every person configure email filters is waisting everybody's > > > > time. > > > > > > Just imagine, how many human-hours has been spent on it. > > > > > > We should respect time of others, and make the separation of emails > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > sending side. > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 13:20, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO we need to run a formal vote on this change, and then PMC > > chair > > > > can > > > > > > > create (or reuse) a separate list for messages from Git repos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ср, 14 нояб. 2018 г. в 16:08, Vladimir Ozerov < > > > voze...@gridgain.com > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Igniters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say that "set the filter" is not a solution. First, it > > is > > > > not > > > > > > > > always possible technically. E.g. I use GMail and my dev-list > > > > emails > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > already use a rule. I cannot extract generated emails from > > > overall > > > > > flow > > > > > > > > with GMail capabilities. But the more important things - is why > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > first place someone needs to went through that generated > > > nightmare? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Git messages is a spam. Looks like everyone agrees with that. > > As > > > > far > > > > > as > > > > > > > > JIRA ticket creation - this is all about importance. When > > someone > > > > > > writes > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > email to the devlist, this is likely to be important topic > > > > requiring > > > > > > > > attention. When someone creates a ticket, most likely this > > > either a > > > > > > bug, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > a piece of already discussed issue, or so. In other words - > > > average > > > > > > > devlist > > > > > > > > user is likely to be interested in manual messages and is very > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be interested in "Ticket created" messages. Not important > > > > information > > > > > > > > overshadows important. Let's continue disucssion this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Git - what should be done to remove Git messages from > > > the > > > > > > list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 6:49 PM Dmitriy Pavlov < > > > > dpavlov....@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Petr, some manual digest, is probably not needed because > > Apache > > > > > list > > > > > > > > allows > > > > > > > > > subscribing to digest. dev-digest-subsr...@ignite.apache.org > > > if > > > > I > > > > > > > > remember > > > > > > > > > this correctly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 6 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:28, Petr Ivanov < > > mr.wei...@gmail.com > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can be Jira notifications united in some kind of daily > > > digest? > > > > > > > > > > Maybe we can add special filter (new tasks / updates during > > > > last > > > > > 24 > > > > > > > > > hours) > > > > > > > > > > with notification scheme? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 Nov 2018, at 18:15, Dmitriy Pavlov < > > > > dpavlov....@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should mention I disagree to remove JIRA issues as the > > > > first > > > > > > > step. > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > helps everyone to understand what other people are going > > to > > > > do > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > project. You always can comment if it is not the best > > > > > approach, > > > > > > > > find a > > > > > > > > > > > duplicate issue, and you may suggest help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PR notification is more or less duplicates JIRA (as 1 > > JIRA > > > > 1..* > > > > > > > PR), > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > may be ok to move Git's messages to > > > > > > > notificati...@ignite.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > <notificati...@ignite.apache.orgб> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we should keep JIRA and test failures. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 6 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:49, Alexey Kuznetsov < > > > > > > > akuznet...@apache.org > > > > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi! > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> I have filter for e-mail from JIRA (very useful, I can > > > quick > > > > > > > search > > > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > > >> there without visiting JIRA). > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> And I'm just deleting tons of e-mails from GitBox & > > about > > > > PRs. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> I don't know what for we need them? > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> May by we try to move GitBox & PRs-related mails first > > and > > > > see > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > goes? > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > >> Alexey Kuznetsov > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
-- Best regards, Ivan Pavlukhin
