> As an IBMer myself, I’ll start an internal discussion between people who > might have admin rights (or who know who would) in those environments > (docs, websites, and GitHub org) so we can see what can be done. I’ll keep > you posted. I’ll include in the conversation the donation of the domains, > as in my understanding, should be under this community’s control, as the > brands were donated to Apache with the code.
We (as IBMers) had an internal discussion and our plan is: - Host old version downloads/documents in `kiegroup` - We will not rename `kiegroup` (because renaming would largely affect CIs), but will adjust descriptions/READMEs so that it doesn’t confuse Apache KIE users. Regarding the donation of the domains, we haven't collected enough information yet, but the topic will likely be a new ML thread. Regards, Toshiya On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 4:59 AM Tiago Bento <[email protected]> wrote: > > Where Red Hat (or IBM) wants to host old artifacts is on their discretion. > We have many Red Hatters and IBMers here (myself included) so I think this > is something “they” should solve outside the ML. > > Once we know what “they” are planning we can decide, here, whether or not > we want to link to the place where this content is or lands so that our > users understand our history and the continued path that brought us to > Apache. > > Regarding the supposed “shadow org”, I’m all in favor of renaming it and > positioning it as a fork, but that’s also on Red Hat’s (or IBM’s) > discretion. All this community can do is ask that “they” accept our request > to rename it and update their communications not to clash with Apache KIE, > thus not confusing our users. > > As an IBMer myself, I’ll start an internal discussion between people who > might have admin rights (or who know who would) in those environments > (docs, websites, and GitHub org) so we can see what can be done. I’ll keep > you posted. I’ll include in the conversation the donation of the domains, > as in my understanding, should be under this community’s control, as the > brands were donated to Apache with the code. > > Thanks Toni, Toshiya and others for pushing this forward! > > Regards, > > Tiago Bento > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 14:56 Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I'll start by stating that, as a PPMC, I don't have any rights in the > > kiegroup organization. As far as I know, it's fully managed by IBM > > (ex-Red Hat). > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 2:55 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > What other suggestion do you have for things that were released (on that > > org) before the move to the ASF? Creating a new org just to hold some old > > binaries, IMO, does not make a lot of sense. > > > > > > -- > > > Jason Porter > > > Software Engineer > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:37 > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > Jason, > > > > > > Not sure about using kiegroup, actually this is a shadow org, and we > > > should try to fix it (at least rename). We shouldn't use a shadow org > > > for anything that is not aligned with Apache, we should just not do. > > > > > > - > > > Alex > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 1:31 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I don’t see that as problem at all, excellent solution! We could put > > the older releases on the kiegroup repos/org. > > > > > > > > Toni or Kobayashi-san are one of you able to get those uploaded to > > github? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jason Porter > > > > Software Engineer > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toni Rikkola <[email protected]> > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:14 > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > > Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but we could we push > > the > > > > items as they are into a GitHub repository and serve the legacy pages > > > > from there? Basically the same thing as hosting them at Red Hat, but > > > > without a risk of a rug pull. > > > > > > > > Or if the docs were packaged and published to a maven repository, link > > > > to those. > > > > > > > > Toni > > > > > > > > On 22/10/2025 19.38, Jason Porter wrote: > > > > > Yes, that would be acceptable. Maybe put everything under a > > “Non-Apache Software Foundation Previous Releases and Documentation” or > > “Previous Releases and Documentation Prior to ASF Migration” section. Both > > of those are a lot of words. Maybe there’s a better way to say that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * https://groovy.apache.org/download.html - Though I don’t > > like how they have small wording saying it is not ASF > > > > > * Netbeans doesn’t have anything > > > > > * https://www.openoffice.org/download/archive.html - > > OpenOffice calls them “Archived Versions” – maybe we could do the same? > > > > > * CouchDB doesn’t have any of their pre-ASF releases > > > > > * Doesn’t look like Derby does either > > > > > * Neither does subversion > > > > > > > > > > It doesn’t look like there is a consensus among different projects > > as to how they handle this situation. > > > > > > > > > > Given what Alex stated about the JBoss Infra, I don’t know if we > > have a good answer to this ☹ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Jason Porter > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toshiya Kobayashi <[email protected]> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2025 at 19:48 > > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > I checked that on the incubator ML. > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/gbwc1yypc03wb0hw1mf5fxwhh8ypzyrj > > > > > > > > > >> Only releases made under the Apache Incubator can be hosted on ASF > > infrastructure like kie.apache.org. > > > > >> > > > > >> Older (pre-Apache) releases such as 7.x or 8.x cannot be mirrored > > or served there, but you may link to them from your download page if it’s > > made very clear they’re non-ASF releases (e.g., add a note like “These are > > pre-Apache releases and not ASF-approved.”). > > > > > So, we cannot move old docs/binaries to kie.apache.org. > > > > > > > > > > Currently the kie.apache.org website has pages with links to the > > older versions. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_documentation > > > > > https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_downloads > > > > > > > > > > I think that's the right direction. The wording should be improved by > > > > > clarifying they are non-ASF releases. > > > > > > > > > > Would that be acceptable? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2025 at 3:24 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> Hi, our mentors > > > > >> > > > > >> Is it okay to move the old downloads (released before our ASF move) > > to > > > > >> kie.apache.org so that users can download them? > > > > >> > > > > >> Regards, > > > > >> Toshiya > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 2:15 AM Jason Porter > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>> For 10 and forward yes. For older downloads, which are not part of > > the ASF, we need to figure out what to do with them. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> -- > > > > >>> Jason Porter > > > > >>> Software Engineer > > > > >>> He/Him/His > > > > >>> > > > > >>> IBM > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > > >>> Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2025 at 19:18 > > > > >>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > > >>> Thank you, Toshiya! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> In regards the downloads, I'd argue that it would be better to > > move to > > > > >>> Apache. As it's the new `owner` of the brands. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2025 at 9:05 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>> Hi, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I have filed a GH issue for the old docs migration. I'll work on > > this. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/2138 > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Btw, regarding old version downloads, they are still available in > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/drools/release/ > > > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/optaplanner/release/ > > > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/jbpm/release/ > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> (Note: they are not drools.org etc.) > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Do we also want to move them to kie.apache.org ? > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Regards, > > > > >>>> Toshiya > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 11:36 PM Kennedy Bowers < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>> Sounds like a good idea, +1 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On 2025/10/07 05:07:45 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs > > supporting > > > > >>>>>>> older versions? > > > > >>>>>> Yes, we can. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> If there are no objections or concerns raised within the next > > few > > > > >>>>>> days, I’ll create a GitHub issue for this task. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Cheers, > > > > >>>>>> Toshiya > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 9:13 PM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> Hi Toshyia, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Thank you for the redirection, although I hear you about older > > version > > > > >>>>>>> docs... and I agree. My concern is that those domains should > > belong to > > > > >>>>>>> ASF, and pointing it to an external infrastructure is quite > > worrisome. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs > > supporting > > > > >>>>>>> older versions? > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 12:54 AM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> Hello, > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> I'm happy to inform that now drools.org, optaplanner.org and > > jbpm.org > > > > >>>>>>>> are redirected to https://kie.apache.org/ > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Note that docs subdomain (docs.drools.org, > > docs.optaplanner.org and > > > > >>>>>>>> docs.jbpm.org) stay the same to provide old version > > documents. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Regards, > > > > >>>>>>>> Toshiya > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 4:16 PM Toni Rikkola < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>> We need to do the same for optaplanner.org and jbpm.org. > > Apache requires us to have everything under kie.apache.org. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Both of the websites have already been moved. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> On 2025/07/04 01:40:16 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> We have migrated the contents to kie.apache.org. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I'm going to ask the administrator of drools.org web > > server (Red Hat) to > > > > >>>>>>>>>> redirect from https://www.drools.org to > > https://kie.apache.org/ . > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is not something like "proposal" or "vote", so > > I'm notifying > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it here. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> If there are no objections for a few days, I'll proceed. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 6:09 PM Toni Rikkola < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Current status. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Everything moved or there is an existing PR pending for a > > move. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The blog will stay where it is. The kie.apache.org can > > just have the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> product release and other project announcements. Everyone > > can blog where > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> they want and we can even link to those blogs from our > > Apache site. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> kie.org is pretty much just links to blogs, so nothing to > > move there that > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is not already in kie.apache.org. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> There is a separate ticket for documentation. This only > > moves what is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> worth the move from websites to the new location. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2025/04/28 07:44:50 Toni Rikkola wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Toshiya. I will move Optaplanner. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1936 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 6:50 AM Toshiya Kobayashi < > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the initiative, Toni. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a parent GH issue: "Migrate KIE Websites to > > Apache > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Infrastructure" > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I added a sub-issue : "Migrate drools.org to > > kie-website" : > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1934 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 3:23 PM Toni Rikkola > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can start the work for drools and Toshiya offered > > help. I can also > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> take > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Optaplanner. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That leaves jbpm. I know dmn had a site setup, but not > > sure if we > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> need/want > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a separate section for it in the future? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 2:56 AM Craig Russell < > > [email protected]> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peanut here. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Toni sez. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, an internet search for "drools" returns > > links to the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> obsolete > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools.org <http://drools.org/ > web site, > > which makes it seem like > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is dead. The downloads on the site are years old. > > Wrong message. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest to copy any current data still on > > drools.org < > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > to a section on > > kie.apache.org < > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://kie.apache.org/ > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In "no time at all" search engines will notice that > > drools is now > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> homed > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Until the domain expires, now redirect drools.org < > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org <http://kie.apache.org/ > . > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless this is done, the project is missing out on a > > lot of > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> possible > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same for other domains that are now kie projects. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2025, at 03:57, Toni Rikkola > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now we have drools.org and kie.apache.org and > > I guess the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> same > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for every other subproject. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old sites > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They break the copyrights that Apache now has for > > KIE. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They get a lot of hits and the site contents are > > 1.5 years old. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they say the project is dead, use something else. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No updates. No mentions of the Apache releases > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Can go down at any moment since this community does > > not fund > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> them > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New site > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No content > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No, or minimal, resources to maintain them > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking at the fact that it has been years. It is > > clear we have > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> no > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motivation or man power to maintain these. So the > > question is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> what is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shortest path to victory? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is we use the domains and forward to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org as > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as possible. Right now the old domains are sending > > the wrong > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> signal. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sure we have a lot of ideas, but also consider > > where we get > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to implement. For few years there has been > > none. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni Rikkola > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig L Russell > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
