> I'll start by stating that, as a PPMC, I don't have any rights in the > kiegroup organization. As far as I know, it's fully managed by IBM > (ex-Red Hat).
I can see Alex's concern, but the old versions don't belong to ASF, so it's natural to be hosted by the historical owner. They are really old stuff... We will just upload and freeze them. We don't need to "manage". Toshiya On Thu, Dec 4, 2025 at 11:15 AM Toshiya Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote: > > > As an IBMer myself, I’ll start an internal discussion between people who > > might have admin rights (or who know who would) in those environments > > (docs, websites, and GitHub org) so we can see what can be done. I’ll keep > > you posted. I’ll include in the conversation the donation of the domains, > > as in my understanding, should be under this community’s control, as the > > brands were donated to Apache with the code. > > We (as IBMers) had an internal discussion and our plan is: > > - Host old version downloads/documents in `kiegroup` > - We will not rename `kiegroup` (because renaming would largely affect > CIs), but will adjust descriptions/READMEs so that it doesn’t confuse > Apache KIE users. > > Regarding the donation of the domains, we haven't collected enough > information yet, but the topic will likely be a new ML thread. > > Regards, > Toshiya > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 4:59 AM Tiago Bento <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Where Red Hat (or IBM) wants to host old artifacts is on their discretion. > > We have many Red Hatters and IBMers here (myself included) so I think this > > is something “they” should solve outside the ML. > > > > Once we know what “they” are planning we can decide, here, whether or not > > we want to link to the place where this content is or lands so that our > > users understand our history and the continued path that brought us to > > Apache. > > > > Regarding the supposed “shadow org”, I’m all in favor of renaming it and > > positioning it as a fork, but that’s also on Red Hat’s (or IBM’s) > > discretion. All this community can do is ask that “they” accept our request > > to rename it and update their communications not to clash with Apache KIE, > > thus not confusing our users. > > > > As an IBMer myself, I’ll start an internal discussion between people who > > might have admin rights (or who know who would) in those environments > > (docs, websites, and GitHub org) so we can see what can be done. I’ll keep > > you posted. I’ll include in the conversation the donation of the domains, > > as in my understanding, should be under this community’s control, as the > > brands were donated to Apache with the code. > > > > Thanks Toni, Toshiya and others for pushing this forward! > > > > Regards, > > > > Tiago Bento > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 14:56 Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I'll start by stating that, as a PPMC, I don't have any rights in the > > > kiegroup organization. As far as I know, it's fully managed by IBM > > > (ex-Red Hat). > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 2:55 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > What other suggestion do you have for things that were released (on that > > > org) before the move to the ASF? Creating a new org just to hold some old > > > binaries, IMO, does not make a lot of sense. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jason Porter > > > > Software Engineer > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:37 > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > > Jason, > > > > > > > > Not sure about using kiegroup, actually this is a shadow org, and we > > > > should try to fix it (at least rename). We shouldn't use a shadow org > > > > for anything that is not aligned with Apache, we should just not do. > > > > > > > > - > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 1:31 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don’t see that as problem at all, excellent solution! We could put > > > the older releases on the kiegroup repos/org. > > > > > > > > > > Toni or Kobayashi-san are one of you able to get those uploaded to > > > github? > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Jason Porter > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toni Rikkola <[email protected]> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:14 > > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > > > Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but we could we push > > > the > > > > > items as they are into a GitHub repository and serve the legacy pages > > > > > from there? Basically the same thing as hosting them at Red Hat, but > > > > > without a risk of a rug pull. > > > > > > > > > > Or if the docs were packaged and published to a maven repository, link > > > > > to those. > > > > > > > > > > Toni > > > > > > > > > > On 22/10/2025 19.38, Jason Porter wrote: > > > > > > Yes, that would be acceptable. Maybe put everything under a > > > “Non-Apache Software Foundation Previous Releases and Documentation” or > > > “Previous Releases and Documentation Prior to ASF Migration” section. Both > > > of those are a lot of words. Maybe there’s a better way to say that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * https://groovy.apache.org/download.html - Though I don’t > > > like how they have small wording saying it is not ASF > > > > > > * Netbeans doesn’t have anything > > > > > > * https://www.openoffice.org/download/archive.html - > > > OpenOffice calls them “Archived Versions” – maybe we could do the same? > > > > > > * CouchDB doesn’t have any of their pre-ASF releases > > > > > > * Doesn’t look like Derby does either > > > > > > * Neither does subversion > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn’t look like there is a consensus among different projects > > > as to how they handle this situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Given what Alex stated about the JBoss Infra, I don’t know if we > > > have a good answer to this ☹ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Jason Porter > > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toshiya Kobayashi <[email protected]> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2025 at 19:48 > > > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > I checked that on the incubator ML. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/gbwc1yypc03wb0hw1mf5fxwhh8ypzyrj > > > > > > > > > > > >> Only releases made under the Apache Incubator can be hosted on ASF > > > infrastructure like kie.apache.org. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Older (pre-Apache) releases such as 7.x or 8.x cannot be mirrored > > > or served there, but you may link to them from your download page if it’s > > > made very clear they’re non-ASF releases (e.g., add a note like “These are > > > pre-Apache releases and not ASF-approved.”). > > > > > > So, we cannot move old docs/binaries to kie.apache.org. > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently the kie.apache.org website has pages with links to the > > > older versions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_documentation > > > > > > https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_downloads > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's the right direction. The wording should be improved > > > > > > by > > > > > > clarifying they are non-ASF releases. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would that be acceptable? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2025 at 3:24 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> Hi, our mentors > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Is it okay to move the old downloads (released before our ASF move) > > > to > > > > > >> kie.apache.org so that users can download them? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Regards, > > > > > >> Toshiya > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 2:15 AM Jason Porter > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>> For 10 and forward yes. For older downloads, which are not part of > > > the ASF, we need to figure out what to do with them. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> -- > > > > > >>> Jason Porter > > > > > >>> Software Engineer > > > > > >>> He/Him/His > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> IBM > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > > > >>> Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2025 at 19:18 > > > > > >>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > > > >>> Thank you, Toshiya! > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> In regards the downloads, I'd argue that it would be better to > > > move to > > > > > >>> Apache. As it's the new `owner` of the brands. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2025 at 9:05 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>> Hi, > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> I have filed a GH issue for the old docs migration. I'll work on > > > this. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/2138 > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Btw, regarding old version downloads, they are still available in > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/drools/release/ > > > > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/optaplanner/release/ > > > > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/jbpm/release/ > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> (Note: they are not drools.org etc.) > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Do we also want to move them to kie.apache.org ? > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Regards, > > > > > >>>> Toshiya > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 11:36 PM Kennedy Bowers < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> Sounds like a good idea, +1 > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> On 2025/10/07 05:07:45 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs > > > supporting > > > > > >>>>>>> older versions? > > > > > >>>>>> Yes, we can. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> If there are no objections or concerns raised within the next > > > few > > > > > >>>>>> days, I’ll create a GitHub issue for this task. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Cheers, > > > > > >>>>>> Toshiya > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 9:13 PM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>> Hi Toshyia, > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Thank you for the redirection, although I hear you about older > > > version > > > > > >>>>>>> docs... and I agree. My concern is that those domains should > > > belong to > > > > > >>>>>>> ASF, and pointing it to an external infrastructure is quite > > > worrisome. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs > > > supporting > > > > > >>>>>>> older versions? > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 12:54 AM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>> Hello, > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'm happy to inform that now drools.org, optaplanner.org and > > > jbpm.org > > > > > >>>>>>>> are redirected to https://kie.apache.org/ > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Note that docs subdomain (docs.drools.org, > > > docs.optaplanner.org and > > > > > >>>>>>>> docs.jbpm.org) stay the same to provide old version > > > documents. > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Regards, > > > > > >>>>>>>> Toshiya > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 4:16 PM Toni Rikkola < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>> We need to do the same for optaplanner.org and jbpm.org. > > > Apache requires us to have everything under kie.apache.org. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Both of the websites have already been moved. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On 2025/07/04 01:40:16 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> We have migrated the contents to kie.apache.org. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I'm going to ask the administrator of drools.org web > > > server (Red Hat) to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> redirect from https://www.drools.org to > > > https://kie.apache.org/ . > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is not something like "proposal" or "vote", so > > > I'm notifying > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it here. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> If there are no objections for a few days, I'll proceed. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 6:09 PM Toni Rikkola < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Current status. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Everything moved or there is an existing PR pending for a > > > move. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The blog will stay where it is. The kie.apache.org can > > > just have the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> product release and other project announcements. Everyone > > > can blog where > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> they want and we can even link to those blogs from our > > > Apache site. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> kie.org is pretty much just links to blogs, so nothing to > > > move there that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is not already in kie.apache.org. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> There is a separate ticket for documentation. This only > > > moves what is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> worth the move from websites to the new location. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2025/04/28 07:44:50 Toni Rikkola wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Toshiya. I will move Optaplanner. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1936 > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 6:50 AM Toshiya Kobayashi < > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the initiative, Toni. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a parent GH issue: "Migrate KIE Websites to > > > Apache > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Infrastructure" > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I added a sub-issue : "Migrate drools.org to > > > kie-website" : > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1934 > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 3:23 PM Toni Rikkola > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can start the work for drools and Toshiya offered > > > help. I can also > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> take > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Optaplanner. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That leaves jbpm. I know dmn had a site setup, but not > > > sure if we > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> need/want > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a separate section for it in the future? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 2:56 AM Craig Russell < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peanut here. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Toni sez. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, an internet search for "drools" returns > > > links to the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> obsolete > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools.org <http://drools.org/ > web site, > > > which makes it seem like > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is dead. The downloads on the site are years old. > > > Wrong message. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest to copy any current data still on > > > drools.org < > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > to a section on > > > kie.apache.org < > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://kie.apache.org/ > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In "no time at all" search engines will notice that > > > drools is now > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> homed > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Until the domain expires, now redirect drools.org < > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org <http://kie.apache.org/ > . > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless this is done, the project is missing out on a > > > lot of > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> possible > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same for other domains that are now kie projects. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2025, at 03:57, Toni Rikkola > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now we have drools.org and kie.apache.org and > > > I guess the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> same > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for every other subproject. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old sites > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They break the copyrights that Apache now has for > > > KIE. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They get a lot of hits and the site contents are > > > 1.5 years old. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they say the project is dead, use something else. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No updates. No mentions of the Apache releases > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Can go down at any moment since this community does > > > not fund > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> them > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New site > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No content > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No, or minimal, resources to maintain them > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking at the fact that it has been years. It is > > > clear we have > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> no > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motivation or man power to maintain these. So the > > > question is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> what is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shortest path to victory? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is we use the domains and forward to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org as > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as possible. Right now the old domains are sending > > > the wrong > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> signal. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sure we have a lot of ideas, but also consider > > > where we get > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to implement. For few years there has been > > > none. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni Rikkola > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig L Russell > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
