> First, and probably the most important point: making decisions through > internal discussions and then communicating the results on the mailing > list feels misaligned with the Apache Way. Even if the intention is to > coordinate among people who work for the same employer, the > decision-making itself should happen here on the public list with the > community.
Hmm, yes, I may be placing too much weight on the idea that the old versions don’t belong to the ASF. (also had internal information as Toni mentioned) I agree that we should continue the discussion openly anyway. - Host old version downloads/documents in `kiegroup`. It's natural to be hosted by the historical owner Please take it as just my opinion. Thanks, Toshiya On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 9:20 PM Toni Rikkola <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > The old repositories are under Red Hat/IBM so there was need to > investigate what can be done and there was limitations that came from > the vendor. The change is communicated on this list. > > This change is part of setting the repositories into hibernation where > they turn into read only mode. I believe this is what all the parties > hope to happen. > > Toni Rikkola > > On 07/12/2025 17.28, Alex Porcelli wrote: > > Thanks for the update, and for the effort you and others have put into > > investigating options. However, let me raise a few concerns. > > > > First, and probably the most important point: making decisions through > > internal discussions and then communicating the results on the mailing > > list feels misaligned with the Apache Way. Even if the intention is to > > coordinate among people who work for the same employer, the > > decision-making itself should happen here on the public list with the > > community. > > > > Second: I understand and fully agree that older versions are not ASF > > releases and therefore cannot be hosted on the ASF infrastructure. > > That part is clear. > > > > However, the brands were donated to the ASF. Because of that, any > > decision that affects how the community manages or presents those > > brands, including where related legacy content is hosted, how it is > > linked, and how it is framed, must be discussed openly here. > > > > I would really appreciate guidance from IPMC and our mentors. From my > > perspective, maintaining a "shadow organization" (kiegroup) with the > > same branding and positioning as before the donation may not be in > > Apache KIE's best interest. > > > > - > > Alex > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2025 at 9:21 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> I'll start by stating that, as a PPMC, I don't have any rights in the > >>> kiegroup organization. As far as I know, it's fully managed by IBM > >>> (ex-Red Hat). > >> I can see Alex's concern, but the old versions don't belong to ASF, so > >> it's natural to be hosted by the historical owner. They are really old > >> stuff... We will just upload and freeze them. We don't need to > >> "manage". > >> > >> Toshiya > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2025 at 11:15 AM Toshiya Kobayashi > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> As an IBMer myself, I’ll start an internal discussion between people who > >>>> might have admin rights (or who know who would) in those environments > >>>> (docs, websites, and GitHub org) so we can see what can be done. I’ll > >>>> keep > >>>> you posted. I’ll include in the conversation the donation of the domains, > >>>> as in my understanding, should be under this community’s control, as the > >>>> brands were donated to Apache with the code. > >>> We (as IBMers) had an internal discussion and our plan is: > >>> > >>> - Host old version downloads/documents in `kiegroup` > >>> - We will not rename `kiegroup` (because renaming would largely affect > >>> CIs), but will adjust descriptions/READMEs so that it doesn’t confuse > >>> Apache KIE users. > >>> > >>> Regarding the donation of the domains, we haven't collected enough > >>> information yet, but the topic will likely be a new ML thread. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Toshiya > >>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 4:59 AM Tiago Bento <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> Where Red Hat (or IBM) wants to host old artifacts is on their > >>>> discretion. > >>>> We have many Red Hatters and IBMers here (myself included) so I think > >>>> this > >>>> is something “they” should solve outside the ML. > >>>> > >>>> Once we know what “they” are planning we can decide, here, whether or not > >>>> we want to link to the place where this content is or lands so that our > >>>> users understand our history and the continued path that brought us to > >>>> Apache. > >>>> > >>>> Regarding the supposed “shadow org”, I’m all in favor of renaming it and > >>>> positioning it as a fork, but that’s also on Red Hat’s (or IBM’s) > >>>> discretion. All this community can do is ask that “they” accept our > >>>> request > >>>> to rename it and update their communications not to clash with Apache > >>>> KIE, > >>>> thus not confusing our users. > >>>> > >>>> As an IBMer myself, I’ll start an internal discussion between people who > >>>> might have admin rights (or who know who would) in those environments > >>>> (docs, websites, and GitHub org) so we can see what can be done. I’ll > >>>> keep > >>>> you posted. I’ll include in the conversation the donation of the domains, > >>>> as in my understanding, should be under this community’s control, as the > >>>> brands were donated to Apache with the code. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Toni, Toshiya and others for pushing this forward! > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> > >>>> Tiago Bento > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 14:56 Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I'll start by stating that, as a PPMC, I don't have any rights in the > >>>>> kiegroup organization. As far as I know, it's fully managed by IBM > >>>>> (ex-Red Hat). > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 2:55 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> What other suggestion do you have for things that were released (on > >>>>>> that > >>>>> org) before the move to the ASF? Creating a new org just to hold some > >>>>> old > >>>>> binaries, IMO, does not make a lot of sense. > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Jason Porter > >>>>>> Software Engineer > >>>>>> He/Him/His > >>>>>> > >>>>>> IBM > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:37 > >>>>>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > >>>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > >>>>>> Jason, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Not sure about using kiegroup, actually this is a shadow org, and we > >>>>>> should try to fix it (at least rename). We shouldn't use a shadow org > >>>>>> for anything that is not aligned with Apache, we should just not do. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - > >>>>>> Alex > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 1:31 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> I don’t see that as problem at all, excellent solution! We could put > >>>>> the older releases on the kiegroup repos/org. > >>>>>>> Toni or Kobayashi-san are one of you able to get those uploaded to > >>>>> github? > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Jason Porter > >>>>>>> Software Engineer > >>>>>>> He/Him/His > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> IBM > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: Toni Rikkola <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:14 > >>>>>>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > >>>>>>> Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but we could we push > >>>>> the > >>>>>>> items as they are into a GitHub repository and serve the legacy pages > >>>>>>> from there? Basically the same thing as hosting them at Red Hat, but > >>>>>>> without a risk of a rug pull. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Or if the docs were packaged and published to a maven repository, link > >>>>>>> to those. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Toni > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 22/10/2025 19.38, Jason Porter wrote: > >>>>>>>> Yes, that would be acceptable. Maybe put everything under a > >>>>> “Non-Apache Software Foundation Previous Releases and Documentation” or > >>>>> “Previous Releases and Documentation Prior to ASF Migration” section. > >>>>> Both > >>>>> of those are a lot of words. Maybe there’s a better way to say that. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> * https://groovy.apache.org/download.html - Though I don’t > >>>>> like how they have small wording saying it is not ASF > >>>>>>>> * Netbeans doesn’t have anything > >>>>>>>> * https://www.openoffice.org/download/archive.html - > >>>>> OpenOffice calls them “Archived Versions” – maybe we could do the same? > >>>>>>>> * CouchDB doesn’t have any of their pre-ASF releases > >>>>>>>> * Doesn’t look like Derby does either > >>>>>>>> * Neither does subversion > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It doesn’t look like there is a consensus among different projects > >>>>> as to how they handle this situation. > >>>>>>>> Given what Alex stated about the JBoss Infra, I don’t know if we > >>>>> have a good answer to this ☹ > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Jason Porter > >>>>>>>> Software Engineer > >>>>>>>> He/Him/His > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> IBM > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> From: Toshiya Kobayashi <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2025 at 19:48 > >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > >>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I checked that on the incubator ML. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/gbwc1yypc03wb0hw1mf5fxwhh8ypzyrj > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Only releases made under the Apache Incubator can be hosted on ASF > >>>>> infrastructure like kie.apache.org. > >>>>>>>>> Older (pre-Apache) releases such as 7.x or 8.x cannot be mirrored > >>>>> or served there, but you may link to them from your download page if > >>>>> it’s > >>>>> made very clear they’re non-ASF releases (e.g., add a note like “These > >>>>> are > >>>>> pre-Apache releases and not ASF-approved.”). > >>>>>>>> So, we cannot move old docs/binaries to kie.apache.org. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Currently the kie.apache.org website has pages with links to the > >>>>> older versions. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_documentation > >>>>>>>> https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_downloads > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think that's the right direction. The wording should be improved by > >>>>>>>> clarifying they are non-ASF releases. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Would that be acceptable? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>> Toshiya > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2025 at 3:24 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Hi, our mentors > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Is it okay to move the old downloads (released before our ASF move) > >>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org so that users can download them? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Toshiya > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 2:15 AM Jason Porter > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> For 10 and forward yes. For older downloads, which are not part of > >>>>> the ASF, we need to figure out what to do with them. > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> Jason Porter > >>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer > >>>>>>>>>> He/Him/His > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> IBM > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2025 at 19:18 > >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Toshiya! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> In regards the downloads, I'd argue that it would be better to > >>>>> move to > >>>>>>>>>> Apache. As it's the new `owner` of the brands. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2025 at 9:05 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I have filed a GH issue for the old docs migration. I'll work on > >>>>> this. > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/2138 > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Btw, regarding old version downloads, they are still available in > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://download.jboss.org/drools/release/ > >>>>>>>>>>> https://download.jboss.org/optaplanner/release/ > >>>>>>>>>>> https://download.jboss.org/jbpm/release/ > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> (Note: they are not drools.org etc.) > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Do we also want to move them to kie.apache.org ? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 11:36 PM Kennedy Bowers < > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a good idea, +1 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025/10/07 05:07:45 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs > >>>>> supporting > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> older versions? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, we can. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If there are no objections or concerns raised within the next > >>>>> few > >>>>>>>>>>>>> days, I’ll create a GitHub issue for this task. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 9:13 PM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Toshyia, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the redirection, although I hear you about older > >>>>> version > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> docs... and I agree. My concern is that those domains should > >>>>> belong to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASF, and pointing it to an external infrastructure is quite > >>>>> worrisome. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs > >>>>> supporting > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> older versions? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 12:54 AM Toshiya Kobayashi > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy to inform that now drools.org, optaplanner.org and > >>>>> jbpm.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are redirected to https://kie.apache.org/ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Note that docs subdomain (docs.drools.org, > >>>>> docs.optaplanner.org and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docs.jbpm.org) stay the same to provide old version > >>>>> documents. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 4:16 PM Toni Rikkola < > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need to do the same for optaplanner.org and jbpm.org. > >>>>> Apache requires us to have everything under kie.apache.org. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both of the websites have already been moved. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025/07/04 01:40:16 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have migrated the contents to kie.apache.org. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to ask the administrator of drools.org web > >>>>> server (Red Hat) to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> redirect from https://www.drools.org to > >>>>> https://kie.apache.org/ . > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this is not something like "proposal" or "vote", so > >>>>> I'm notifying > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it here. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there are no objections for a few days, I'll proceed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 6:09 PM Toni Rikkola < > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Current status. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything moved or there is an existing PR pending for a > >>>>> move. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The blog will stay where it is. The kie.apache.org can > >>>>> just have the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product release and other project announcements. Everyone > >>>>> can blog where > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they want and we can even link to those blogs from our > >>>>> Apache site. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie.org is pretty much just links to blogs, so nothing to > >>>>> move there that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not already in kie.apache.org. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a separate ticket for documentation. This only > >>>>> moves what is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth the move from websites to the new location. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025/04/28 07:44:50 Toni Rikkola wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Toshiya. I will move Optaplanner. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1936 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 6:50 AM Toshiya Kobayashi < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the initiative, Toni. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a parent GH issue: "Migrate KIE Websites to > >>>>> Apache > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infrastructure" > >>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I added a sub-issue : "Migrate drools.org to > >>>>> kie-website" : > >>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1934 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 3:23 PM Toni Rikkola > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can start the work for drools and Toshiya offered > >>>>> help. I can also > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Optaplanner. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That leaves jbpm. I know dmn had a site setup, but not > >>>>> sure if we > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need/want > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a separate section for it in the future? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 2:56 AM Craig Russell < > >>>>> [email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peanut here. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Toni sez. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, an internet search for "drools" returns > >>>>> links to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsolete > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools.org <http://drools.org/ > web site, > >>>>> which makes it seem like > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is dead. The downloads on the site are years old. > >>>>> Wrong message. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest to copy any current data still on > >>>>> drools.org < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > to a section on > >>>>> kie.apache.org < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://kie.apache.org/ > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In "no time at all" search engines will notice that > >>>>> drools is now > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> homed > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Until the domain expires, now redirect drools.org < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org <http://kie.apache.org/ > . > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless this is done, the project is missing out on a > >>>>> lot of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same for other domains that are now kie projects. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2025, at 03:57, Toni Rikkola > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now we have drools.org and kie.apache.org and > >>>>> I guess the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for every other subproject. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old sites > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They break the copyrights that Apache now has for > >>>>> KIE. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They get a lot of hits and the site contents are > >>>>> 1.5 years old. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they say the project is dead, use something else. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No updates. No mentions of the Apache releases > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Can go down at any moment since this community does > >>>>> not fund > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New site > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No content > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No, or minimal, resources to maintain them > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking at the fact that it has been years. It is > >>>>> clear we have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motivation or man power to maintain these. So the > >>>>> question is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shortest path to victory? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is we use the domains and forward to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as possible. Right now the old domains are sending > >>>>> the wrong > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signal. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sure we have a lot of ideas, but also consider > >>>>> where we get > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to implement. For few years there has been > >>>>> none. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni Rikkola > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig L Russell > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
