I'll start by stating that, as a PPMC, I don't have any rights in the kiegroup organization. As far as I know, it's fully managed by IBM (ex-Red Hat).
On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 2:55 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> wrote: > > What other suggestion do you have for things that were released (on that org) > before the move to the ASF? Creating a new org just to hold some old > binaries, IMO, does not make a lot of sense. > > -- > Jason Porter > Software Engineer > He/Him/His > > IBM > > > From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:37 > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > Jason, > > Not sure about using kiegroup, actually this is a shadow org, and we > should try to fix it (at least rename). We shouldn't use a shadow org > for anything that is not aligned with Apache, we should just not do. > > - > Alex > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 1:31 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I don’t see that as problem at all, excellent solution! We could put the > > older releases on the kiegroup repos/org. > > > > Toni or Kobayashi-san are one of you able to get those uploaded to github? > > > > -- > > Jason Porter > > Software Engineer > > He/Him/His > > > > IBM > > > > > > From: Toni Rikkola <[email protected]> > > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 11:14 > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but we could we push the > > items as they are into a GitHub repository and serve the legacy pages > > from there? Basically the same thing as hosting them at Red Hat, but > > without a risk of a rug pull. > > > > Or if the docs were packaged and published to a maven repository, link > > to those. > > > > Toni > > > > On 22/10/2025 19.38, Jason Porter wrote: > > > Yes, that would be acceptable. Maybe put everything under a “Non-Apache > > > Software Foundation Previous Releases and Documentation” or “Previous > > > Releases and Documentation Prior to ASF Migration” section. Both of those > > > are a lot of words. Maybe there’s a better way to say that. > > > > > > > > > * https://groovy.apache.org/download.html - Though I don’t like > > > how they have small wording saying it is not ASF > > > * Netbeans doesn’t have anything > > > * https://www.openoffice.org/download/archive.html - OpenOffice > > > calls them “Archived Versions” – maybe we could do the same? > > > * CouchDB doesn’t have any of their pre-ASF releases > > > * Doesn’t look like Derby does either > > > * Neither does subversion > > > > > > It doesn’t look like there is a consensus among different projects as to > > > how they handle this situation. > > > > > > Given what Alex stated about the JBoss Infra, I don’t know if we have a > > > good answer to this ☹ > > > > > > -- > > > Jason Porter > > > Software Engineer > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > From: Toshiya Kobayashi <[email protected]> > > > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2025 at 19:48 > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I checked that on the incubator ML. > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/gbwc1yypc03wb0hw1mf5fxwhh8ypzyrj > > > > > >> Only releases made under the Apache Incubator can be hosted on ASF > > >> infrastructure like kie.apache.org. > > >> > > >> Older (pre-Apache) releases such as 7.x or 8.x cannot be mirrored or > > >> served there, but you may link to them from your download page if it’s > > >> made very clear they’re non-ASF releases (e.g., add a note like “These > > >> are pre-Apache releases and not ASF-approved.”). > > > So, we cannot move old docs/binaries to kie.apache.org. > > > > > > Currently the kie.apache.org website has pages with links to the older > > > versions. > > > > > > https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_documentation > > > https://kie.apache.org/docs/components/drools/drools_old_downloads > > > > > > I think that's the right direction. The wording should be improved by > > > clarifying they are non-ASF releases. > > > > > > Would that be acceptable? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Toshiya > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2025 at 3:24 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Hi, our mentors > > >> > > >> Is it okay to move the old downloads (released before our ASF move) to > > >> kie.apache.org so that users can download them? > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Toshiya > > >> > > >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 2:15 AM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >>> For 10 and forward yes. For older downloads, which are not part of the > > >>> ASF, we need to figure out what to do with them. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Jason Porter > > >>> Software Engineer > > >>> He/Him/His > > >>> > > >>> IBM > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > >>> Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2025 at 19:18 > > >>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] Web site maintenance > > >>> Thank you, Toshiya! > > >>> > > >>> In regards the downloads, I'd argue that it would be better to move to > > >>> Apache. As it's the new `owner` of the brands. > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2025 at 9:05 PM Toshiya Kobayashi > > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> Hi, > > >>>> > > >>>> I have filed a GH issue for the old docs migration. I'll work on this. > > >>>> > > >>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/2138 > > >>>> > > >>>> Btw, regarding old version downloads, they are still available in > > >>>> > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/drools/release/ > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/optaplanner/release/ > > >>>> https://download.jboss.org/jbpm/release/ > > >>>> > > >>>> (Note: they are not drools.org etc.) > > >>>> > > >>>> Do we also want to move them to kie.apache.org ? > > >>>> > > >>>> Regards, > > >>>> Toshiya > > >>>> > > >>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 11:36 PM Kennedy Bowers <[email protected]> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>>> Sounds like a good idea, +1 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On 2025/10/07 05:07:45 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > > >>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs supporting > > >>>>>>> older versions? > > >>>>>> Yes, we can. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> If there are no objections or concerns raised within the next few > > >>>>>> days, I’ll create a GitHub issue for this task. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Cheers, > > >>>>>> Toshiya > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 9:13 PM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> Hi Toshyia, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thank you for the redirection, although I hear you about older > > >>>>>>> version > > >>>>>>> docs... and I agree. My concern is that those domains should belong > > >>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>> ASF, and pointing it to an external infrastructure is quite > > >>>>>>> worrisome. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Maybe we could move that content under ASF and have docs supporting > > >>>>>>> older versions? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2025 at 12:54 AM Toshiya Kobayashi > > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> Hello, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I'm happy to inform that now drools.org, optaplanner.org and > > >>>>>>>> jbpm.org > > >>>>>>>> are redirected to https://kie.apache.org/ > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Note that docs subdomain (docs.drools.org, docs.optaplanner.org and > > >>>>>>>> docs.jbpm.org) stay the same to provide old version documents. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Regards, > > >>>>>>>> Toshiya > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 4:16 PM Toni Rikkola <[email protected]> > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> We need to do the same for optaplanner.org and jbpm.org. Apache > > >>>>>>>>> requires us to have everything under kie.apache.org. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Both of the websites have already been moved. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Toni > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On 2025/07/04 01:40:16 Toshiya Kobayashi wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> We have migrated the contents to kie.apache.org. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I'm going to ask the administrator of drools.org web server (Red > > >>>>>>>>>> Hat) to > > >>>>>>>>>> redirect from https://www.drools.org to > > >>>>>>>>>> https://kie.apache.org/ . > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is not something like "proposal" or "vote", so I'm > > >>>>>>>>>> notifying > > >>>>>>>>>> it here. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> If there are no objections for a few days, I'll proceed. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 6:09 PM Toni Rikkola <[email protected]> > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Current status. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Everything moved or there is an existing PR pending for a move. > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> The blog will stay where it is. The kie.apache.org can just > > >>>>>>>>>>> have the > > >>>>>>>>>>> product release and other project announcements. Everyone can > > >>>>>>>>>>> blog where > > >>>>>>>>>>> they want and we can even link to those blogs from our Apache > > >>>>>>>>>>> site. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> kie.org is pretty much just links to blogs, so nothing to move > > >>>>>>>>>>> there that > > >>>>>>>>>>> is not already in kie.apache.org. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> There is a separate ticket for documentation. This only moves > > >>>>>>>>>>> what is > > >>>>>>>>>>> worth the move from websites to the new location. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2025/04/28 07:44:50 Toni Rikkola wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Toshiya. I will move Optaplanner. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1936 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 6:50 AM Toshiya Kobayashi < > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the initiative, Toni. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a parent GH issue: "Migrate KIE Websites to Apache > > >>>>>>>>>>> Infrastructure" > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1713 > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I added a sub-issue : "Migrate drools.org to kie-website" : > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/1934 > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshiya > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 3:23 PM Toni Rikkola > > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can start the work for drools and Toshiya offered help. I > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also > > >>>>>>>>>>> take > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Optaplanner. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That leaves jbpm. I know dmn had a site setup, but not sure > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if we > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> need/want > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a separate section for it in the future? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 2:56 AM Craig Russell > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peanut here. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Toni sez. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, an internet search for "drools" returns links to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> obsolete > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools.org <http://drools.org/ > web site, which > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes it seem like > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drools > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is dead. The downloads on the site are years old. Wrong > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest to copy any current data still on drools.org < > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > to a section on kie.apache.org < > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://kie.apache.org/ > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In "no time at all" search engines will notice that drools > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is now > > >>>>>>>>>>> homed > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Until the domain expires, now redirect drools.org < > > >>>>>>>>>>> http://drools.org/ > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org <http://kie.apache.org/ > . > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless this is done, the project is missing out on a lot of > > >>>>>>>>>>> possible > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same for other domains that are now kie projects. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2025, at 03:57, Toni Rikkola > > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now we have drools.org and kie.apache.org and I > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess the > > >>>>>>>>>>> same > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for every other subproject. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old sites > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They break the copyrights that Apache now has for KIE. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * They get a lot of hits and the site contents are 1.5 > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years old. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they say the project is dead, use something else. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No updates. No mentions of the Apache releases > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Can go down at any moment since this community does not > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fund > > >>>>>>>>>>> them > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New site > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No content > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No, or minimal, resources to maintain them > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking at the fact that it has been years. It is clear we > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have > > >>>>>>>>>>> no > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motivation or man power to maintain these. So the question > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>>>>> what is > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shortest path to victory? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is we use the domains and forward to > > >>>>>>>>>>> kie.apache.org as > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as possible. Right now the old domains are sending the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong > > >>>>>>>>>>> signal. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sure we have a lot of ideas, but also consider where > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we get > > >>>>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources to implement. For few years there has been none. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toni Rikkola > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig L Russell > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>>> > > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>>> > > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
