On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Brett Porter wrote: > > On 04/08/2010, at 4:21 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> We have two major pieces that we, Sonatype, would like to merge into Maven >> 3.x trunk. > > Are these reviewable distinctly? I only seem them mashed together in > Benjamin's fork. >
The Guice changes are dependency changes only. All the magic happens in the container implementation. > > The messages I'd seen so far seemed to indicate it would be heading back to > Apache, before it was integrated into trunk. This caught me by surprise, and > I'm disappointed that's not a consideration right now. > Ultimately it's going to be more like p2 so ultimately if it moves anywhere it will be to Eclipse. > > On the one hand, we have a repository indexing API eventually coming in, but > the repository API itself going out - that seems a bit odd. There does seem > to be a lot of "Mavenisms" in the code, at least at present, that would > indicate it best fits here. On the other hand, I can see the value in having > a broader group participating in this effort, and in parallel simplifying > Maven core to focus on more directly build-related stuff, such that it makes > sense for it to be a standalone project. > Many other projects are going to be integrating this code and it's likely contributions from non-Maven developers will be high. I want to collaborate in easily, I want to release once a day if necessary to accommodate integrators, I want to use best practices for fully automated releases, and I want to be able to update the website instantly. Some of these issues are in never-ending discussion mode here, and some of these things will just never happen here. I don't want to argue, and I honestly believe Aether will be healthier for it. Maven is better here because it's adopted on slower cycles and people don't pick up experimental builds. Integrators will likely be riding the bleeding edge with Aether for a while. > My main concern is Maven chasing snapshots. For someone to address a bug or > feature in Maven, they should not have to dive into a 3rd party project. I > don't really know what would happen to our issue tracker as a result of this > move. That problem bit me in a small way with the plexus-cipher, it has been > an historical problem with Plexus itself, and I don't think "anyone can have > access" really mitigates it. When 3.0 is still struggling for a final > release, fragmenting issue tracking, communication and the limited > documentation would seem problematic. I believe this is a non-issue. 3rd party dependencies are a fact of life, Maven is no different then anything else in the world. Everyone has to deal with snapshot dependencies or other dependency problems in lots of projects. Again I think Aether will be healthier having more external parties involved. For working on a library it's honestly nice not having all the overhead Apache brings to the table. Apache is great for overarching products like Maven, but not so much for a sub-parts. Maybe if Apache evolved in its approach to development I might think differently in the future but that's not the experience now. We need to respond very quickly to users and integrators. > > From a technical standpoint - I'd need more time to review, if applicable. > Knowing that Benjamin does good work, I'd expect it's superior to what we > have and worth moving forward with, and agree with doing that soon so that > the end is in sight for 3.0. I spent a lot of time reviewing Mercury to no > avail (as you similarly highlighted in your blog post), but perhaps some of > the comments still apply. At a glance, my first comment is that I can't see > where the line is between the Maven bits and the generic bits. For instance, > if I wanted to change how the local repository works - is that pluggable from > Maven, or wholly within the library? > You can look at the demo to see how all the pieces fit together: http://github.com/sonatype/sonatype-aether/blob/master/aether-demo/src/main/java/demo/RepoSys.java > I really only see the question of the location of the development to decide. > My opinion would be to bring it here, alongside the indexer, as a subproject. I truly believe more people will be involved in Aether if it's not here. I don't believe it's in the best interest of the development of Aether to be at Apache. If I'm wrong we can move it in the future but it honestly doesn't make any difference now from a practical stand point. > Get all the effort on getting 3.0 out focused in one place, but have a clear > scope to where they might go later. However, I'm not putting up any > roadblocks here. The time I would have had to work on this over the last few > years since trunk split off has pretty much evaporated. I'd love to get back > into this particular code if it ended up somewhere I could contribute. But > for now, I mostly want to encourage those who are still here to think through > the implications for developing Maven. > Fair enough. > Thanks, > Brett > > -- > Brett Porter > [email protected] > http://brettporter.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- A language that doesn’t affect the way you think about programming is not worth knowing. -— Alan Perlis
