Hi, Thanks for the detailed response! A few comments inline - let's see how we get this to the next stage then ...
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 at 12:01, Jaroslav Tulach <[email protected]> wrote: > Right. `nb-javac` is an independent component created with only purpose: To > be consumed by (Apache) NetBeans project .. Well, to me the "only purpose" bit is the crux of the "independent" argument, and makes it rather different to other libraries we use, but also from plugins. I'm not sure it's necessarily useful to say that it continues to be developed with only that purpose? I remember talking with you at JCrete on this during early transition, and about the fact that the other, other VSCode LSP support was using it. I don't think it still is, maybe it could be encouraged back to it - an independent component that provides useful features for editors in general, and is consumed by other projects, is a good thing IMO! The other things obviously are independent public source hosting and build instructions, independent distribution, independent issue tracking, etc. All things I think have been addressed recently. > The previous delays were caused by the need to do manual changes and that > is being eliminated by https://github.com/oracle/nb-javac/pull/12. Partly, yes. Although a lot has also been to do with delays in integration and our infrastructure. eg. switch to third-party UC in 11.2 was caused by inability of plugin portal to handle different IDE releases (something we unfortunately still have), and current delay was caused by conflation of bug fixes with switch to Maven. The nb-javac team have done a great job - I think partly it's also, from a previous schedule thread, that our release schedule and that of the JDK make timing a little awkward? > In Dec/Nov 2020 I made a commitment (internally in Oracle) to take over the > maintenance of `nb-javac`. As in maintained and developed by Oracle Labs into the future? And published via Oracle namespace in future? Because ... > > go back to Apache Legal and request permission to ship nb-javac as a > > dependency out of the box. Is that actually a desirable outcome, > > particularly considering above? > > +100, yes, that's the desirable outcome. OK, I'm inclined to open a legal ticket then, and see where we get with that so we can at least plan based on it. Any objections? Or someone else really want to do it? I think with the recent assessment that CPE *could* be compatible with ASF licensing requirements, we're left with also ensuring it's all fully independent - sources moved from legacy netbeans.org location to Oracle namespace, binaries no longer consumed from OSUOSL - I think we're in a much better place there now. > That means `nb-javac` ... > ...is an optional dependency. I still think we're playing semantics a little there with what "optional" means, and I think it sometimes colours decisions about this. The other part of that ASF quote was about not being used by the majority of users, and I think that's a harder one to claim. OTOH, we were also allowed to do what we're currently doing because the need to accept GPL+CPE is hardly a surprise to someone wanting to develop in Java. There is the question whether, in either scenario, nb-javac should be a non-optional requirement for opting in to Java development? > > Could that also be > > addressed by eating our own dog food and running the LSP on the target > > VM? > > That is an unexplored area for me. I assume it is a long road to get there > and keep the current level of Java support. Almost certainly. OTOH there seems to be a lot more focus on LSP at the moment, so I wondered whether it's a useful direction of travel that actually focuses efforts and longer-term reduces workload? Just throwing it out there - I like the idea of decoupling into UI and headless processes anyway, potentially running on different VMs. A thread for another day! > Choices are always tough. Luckily for me, I don't have a choice. I promised > to take away the cost of maintenance from current `nb-javac` maintainers by > end of 2021. On the other side I need NetBeans IDE and/or VSNetBeans to run > on GraalVM8. I am doing my best to balance these two requirements. Awesome! Choice made then ... well, partly. :-) Thanks and best wishes, Neil --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
