In the UI work I've done, I have tried to keep accessibility an important priority. One of the things I like about having a scalable UI is that sight impaired people can crank up their browser's default font to see it better. The simplified markup is great for screen readers. Keeping OFBiz accessible to the blind is one reason why I want the screen widgets to output plain HTML in addition to all the new, fancy Ajax stuff.
I agree we're doing pretty well. The only thing we're missing is a "Skip Menus" button at the top of the screen. -Adrian Jacques Le Roux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: "Jacques Le Roux" > From: "Bruno Busco" > [...] >> Another point that I would bring into this discussion (hoping not being OT) >> is the possibility for the user to easily use the page with the keyboard >> only and still be able to switch between search fields panel and the data >> table to refine the search. >> I have noticed that many end-users that use non-web based application go >> very fast in data entry with the keyboard only and this, in my opinion, >> should be considered in the OFBiz interface desing. > > Yes, I agree this is a very pertinent remark (we could even think more about > the 15% of the population which is more or less > disabled, and sadly underemployed from this cause. In France for instance > there are laws for decades about that but still a lot of > enterprises which prefer to pay taxes than to employ handicapped persons...) Mmm... That saids, I though one hour ago that it's should be a huge task for an ERP UI... Then I dowloaded Webbie http://www.webbie.org.uk/ and NVDA http://www.nvda-project.org/download.html (awesome for a free tool). Sorry these softwares are designed for Windows but I guess the same exists on Linux And you know what ? I think OFBIz is not doing too bad. Of course we could do better by adding means to skip some parts of the screens, but it's really not too bad. Ok, I let my screen open and I did not close my eyes. But I'm pretty sure OFBiz is not so hard to use for a blind person with some experience with computer and web tools designed for blinds (and of course some guidances for OFBiz at start too, I remember now my 1st steps in OFBIz). Good news isn'it ? Of course this is seen from a non blind person and I can't guarantee it's realistic... Maybe in some decades, centuries ? Jacques > Jacques > >> Thanks, >> -Bruno >> >> 2008/6/1 Adrian Crum : >> >>> I know the two subjects were mixed in some replies. I understand what you >>> mean though. ;-) >>> >>> -Adrian >>> >>> Scott Gray wrote: I was for separating create forms >>> and search/result forms, I was not >>> suggesting that we should separate the search forms themselves. >>> >>> Regards >>> Scott >>> >>> 2008/6/1 Jacques Le Roux : >>> >>> > I finally agree with most too (I mean I agree with Adrian's proposition >>> and >>> > Andrew's here). Having them on 2 screen was a Scott's >>> > proposition that I agreed with because of the flexibility given by modern >>> > browsers and their integrated tabs capabilities. But I can >>> > imagine that some people, especially end users, would not like to use >>> tabs >>> > or even a modern browser (though they should to use >>> > both). Then it's obviously not easier to use... >>> > >>> > Just one point : I'm not sure it's good to have forms collapsed by >>> default >>> > when there are results. If we would really want to have >>> > something like that, whe should at least have an indicator to let know >>> the >>> > user that the list is not empty. >>> > >>> > Just my opinion, and BTW having a consensual standard usage will be >>> great. >>> > I agree with the idea that we really need to standardise our ways of >>> doing >>> > things, even if there are only a few places still needing it in OFBiz ERP >>> > (thanks to widgets for instance) >>> > >>> > Jacques >>> > >>> > From: "Andrew Zeneski" >>> > >>> > I can agree with most except list results and the form should be >>> rendered >>> >> as one screen. This is to make usage easier when the >>> >> user wants to change the search parameters. Having the form collapsed >>> by >>> >> default when there are results is good. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Andrew >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On May 30, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Getting back to this... >>> >>> >>> >>> Here are the layout best practices discussed so far: >>> >>> >>> >>> "In the case where items are being added to a list, it is preferable >>> to >>> >>> have the item data entry screen and the item list on >>> >>> separate screens. If the two functions are incorporated into one >>> screen, >>> >>> then the item data entry screen should be above the >>> >>> item list. In addition, the item data entry screen should be >>> collapsible >>> >>> and initially collapsed." >>> >>> >>> >>> "If a Find Item screen has a form for search options, the search >>> options >>> >>> form should be above the list of items found. The list >>> >>> of items found should display all items initially - giving the user >>> the >>> >>> ability to narrow the results via the search options >>> >>> form." >>> >>> >>> >>> Can we agree on these? >>> >>> >>> >>> -Adrian >>> >>> >>> >>> Jacques Le Roux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: "Scott Gray" >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> It looks nice but if we did that the user would lose the ability to >>> >>>>> refer >>> >>>>> back to the list while entering data, I would prefer an expand/ >>> >>>>> collapse form >>> >>>>> if we are going to keep them on the same page. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> Yes I agree, but I really like the idea for the calendar (I can't >>> >>>> propose it for lookups are they are too much to be loaded >>> >>>> when lauching and the probability of use is far more low, but maybe >>> one >>> >>>> day, when machines will be more powerful :D >>> >>>> Jacques >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Regards >>> >>>>> Scott >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> 2008/5/24 Anil Patel : >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> I think what David is suggesting is something like this >>> >>>>>> http://www.wildbit.com/demos/modalbox/ >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Regards >>> >>>>>> Anil Patel >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On May 23, 2008, at 1:57 PM, David E Jones wrote: >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> I didn't say open a new window, I said either expand a hidden area >>> >>>>>>> or >>> >>>>>>> popup using JavaScript within the window (ie over top of the list >>> >>>>>>> behind >>> >>>>>>> it). >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> -David >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On May 23, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> IMHO, we should avoid to overuse popping as opening a new window >>> is >>> >>>>>>> time >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> consuming (especially in Firefox). This is currently a major >>> >>>>>>>> inconvenience >>> >>>>>>>> for Lookups and Calendar for instance >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Jacques >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> From: "David E Jones" >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Since we're entering the world of using more javascript in the >>> >>>>>>>>> browser, >>> >>>>>>>>> why not have the add form on the top but hidden by default with >>> >>>>>>>>> and Add >>> >>>>>>>>> button of some sort that would cause the form to be shown? We >>> >>>>>>>>> could even >>> >>>>>>>>> make it fancy and popup over top of the list form and have it >>> go >>> >>>>>>>>> away after >>> >>>>>>>>> submission with an update of the list behind it... without any >>> >>>>>>>>> page loads >>> >>>>>>>>> even. >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> -David >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On May 22, 2008, at 11:38 PM, Scott Gray wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> I would agree with that but personally I would prefer to see >>> them >>> >>>>>>>>> on >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> completely different pages. If I wanted to be able to refer >>> back >>> >>>>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>> list while adding I would ctrl+click and then ctrl+tab to flick >>> >>>>>>>>>> back >>> >>>>>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>>>>> forth, that's what makes tabbed browsers so handy. One of the >>> >>>>>>>>>> problems with >>> >>>>>>>>>> having them on the same page is that any errors after adding >>> >>>>>>>>>> would be >>> >>>>>>>>>> displayed before the list while the add form would be way down >>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>> >>>>>>>>>> Scott >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 2008/5/23 David E Jones : >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 22, 2008, at 9:11 AM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) If a screen has a list and add form, what should be the >>> order >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of >>> >>>>>>>>>>> these >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> forms (I have seen in your recent work that add form should >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> come on >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> top >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I completely >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with this). >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the form should be on top of the list. Otherwise, >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> as you >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> add >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> items to the list, the form is scrolled off the bottom of the >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> screen. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The main question is: what is going to be used more? Will it >>> >>>>>>>>>>> be the >>> >>>>>>>>>>> list or >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the add form? >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> If in most cases it will be the list, and if you have to >>> scroll >>> >>>>>>>>>>> down >>> >>>>>>>>>>> every >>> >>>>>>>>>>> time to see it... that's a pain. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> -David >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
