Hi Adrian,
From: "Adrian Crum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In the UI work I've done, I have tried to keep accessibility an important
priority. One of the things I like about having a
scalable UI is that sight impaired people can crank up their browser's default
font to see it better. The simplified markup is
great for screen readers. Keeping OFBiz accessible to the blind is one reason
why I want the screen widgets to output plain HTML
in addition to all the new, fancy Ajax stuff.
I agree we're doing pretty well. The only thing we're missing is a "Skip Menus"
button at the top of the screen.
I began to work on this using the solution described in the chapter 8 of Jeffrey
Zeldman's "Designing With Web Standards, 2nd
edition" (I also added a link to this valuable book from the Wiki Books page).
I commited the work in progress in rev. 662598
It should work but I was unable to test it in the limited time I gave to this
feature tonight (accesskey is a nightmare).
Jacques
PS : Actually I wondered about accesskey, I finally found in
http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=32 : <<even these keys would be
inaccessible to users not using a North American Standard (QWERTY) keyboard>>,
clearly not efficient :(
Some works done tough : http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=43
-Adrian
Jacques Le Roux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: "Jacques Le Roux"
From: "Bruno Busco"
[...]
Another point that I would bring into this discussion (hoping not being OT)
is the possibility for the user to easily use the page with the keyboard
only and still be able to switch between search fields panel and the data
table to refine the search.
I have noticed that many end-users that use non-web based application go
very fast in data entry with the keyboard only and this, in my opinion,
should be considered in the OFBiz interface desing.
Yes, I agree this is a very pertinent remark (we could even think more about
the 15% of the population which is more or less
disabled, and sadly underemployed from this cause. In France for instance there
are laws for decades about that but still a lot
of
enterprises which prefer to pay taxes than to employ handicapped persons...)
Mmm... That saids, I though one hour ago that it's should be a huge task for an
ERP UI... Then I dowloaded Webbie
http://www.webbie.org.uk/ and NVDA http://www.nvda-project.org/download.html
(awesome for a free tool). Sorry these softwares are
designed for Windows but I guess the same exists on Linux
And you know what ? I think OFBIz is not doing too bad. Of course we could do
better by adding means to skip some parts of the
screens, but it's really not too bad.
Ok, I let my screen open and I did not close my eyes. But I'm pretty sure OFBiz
is not so hard to use for a blind person with some
experience with computer and web tools designed for blinds (and of course some
guidances for OFBiz at start too, I remember now my
1st steps in OFBIz). Good news isn'it ?
Of course this is seen from a non blind person and I can't guarantee it's
realistic... Maybe in some decades, centuries ?
Jacques
Jacques
Thanks,
-Bruno
2008/6/1 Adrian Crum :
I know the two subjects were mixed in some replies. I understand what you
mean though. ;-)
-Adrian
Scott Gray wrote: I was for separating create forms
and search/result forms, I was not
suggesting that we should separate the search forms themselves.
Regards
Scott
2008/6/1 Jacques Le Roux :
> I finally agree with most too (I mean I agree with Adrian's proposition
and
> Andrew's here). Having them on 2 screen was a Scott's
> proposition that I agreed with because of the flexibility given by modern
> browsers and their integrated tabs capabilities. But I can
> imagine that some people, especially end users, would not like to use
tabs
> or even a modern browser (though they should to use
> both). Then it's obviously not easier to use...
>
> Just one point : I'm not sure it's good to have forms collapsed by
default
> when there are results. If we would really want to have
> something like that, whe should at least have an indicator to let know
the
> user that the list is not empty.
>
> Just my opinion, and BTW having a consensual standard usage will be
great.
> I agree with the idea that we really need to standardise our ways of
doing
> things, even if there are only a few places still needing it in OFBiz ERP
> (thanks to widgets for instance)
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Andrew Zeneski"
>
> I can agree with most except list results and the form should be
rendered
>> as one screen. This is to make usage easier when the
>> user wants to change the search parameters. Having the form collapsed
by
>> default when there are results is good.
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> On May 30, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>
>> Getting back to this...
>>>
>>> Here are the layout best practices discussed so far:
>>>
>>> "In the case where items are being added to a list, it is preferable
to
>>> have the item data entry screen and the item list on
>>> separate screens. If the two functions are incorporated into one
screen,
>>> then the item data entry screen should be above the
>>> item list. In addition, the item data entry screen should be
collapsible
>>> and initially collapsed."
>>>
>>> "If a Find Item screen has a form for search options, the search
options
>>> form should be above the list of items found. The list
>>> of items found should display all items initially - giving the user
the
>>> ability to narrow the results via the search options
>>> form."
>>>
>>> Can we agree on these?
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: "Scott Gray"
>>>>
>>>>> It looks nice but if we did that the user would lose the ability to
>>>>> refer
>>>>> back to the list while entering data, I would prefer an expand/
>>>>> collapse form
>>>>> if we are going to keep them on the same page.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes I agree, but I really like the idea for the calendar (I can't
>>>> propose it for lookups are they are too much to be loaded
>>>> when lauching and the probability of use is far more low, but maybe
one
>>>> day, when machines will be more powerful :D
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/5/24 Anil Patel :
>>>>>
>>>>> I think what David is suggesting is something like this
>>>>>> http://www.wildbit.com/demos/modalbox/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Anil Patel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 23, 2008, at 1:57 PM, David E Jones wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't say open a new window, I said either expand a hidden area
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> popup using JavaScript within the window (ie over top of the list
>>>>>>> behind
>>>>>>> it).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 23, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO, we should avoid to overuse popping as opening a new window
is
>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> consuming (especially in Firefox). This is currently a major
>>>>>>>> inconvenience
>>>>>>>> for Lookups and Calendar for instance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "David E Jones"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since we're entering the world of using more javascript in the
>>>>>>>>> browser,
>>>>>>>>> why not have the add form on the top but hidden by default with
>>>>>>>>> and Add
>>>>>>>>> button of some sort that would cause the form to be shown? We
>>>>>>>>> could even
>>>>>>>>> make it fancy and popup over top of the list form and have it
go
>>>>>>>>> away after
>>>>>>>>> submission with an update of the list behind it... without any
>>>>>>>>> page loads
>>>>>>>>> even.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 22, 2008, at 11:38 PM, Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would agree with that but personally I would prefer to see
them
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> completely different pages. If I wanted to be able to refer
back
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> list while adding I would ctrl+click and then ctrl+tab to flick
>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> forth, that's what makes tabbed browsers so handy. One of the
>>>>>>>>>> problems with
>>>>>>>>>> having them on the same page is that any errors after adding
>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>> displayed before the list while the add form would be way down
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> bottom.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2008/5/23 David E Jones :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 22, 2008, at 9:11 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2) If a screen has a list and add form, what should be the
order
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> forms (I have seen in your recent work that add form should
>>>>>>>>>>>> come on
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> top
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I completely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with this).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the form should be on top of the list. Otherwise,
>>>>>>>>>>>> as you
>>>>>>>>>>>> add
>>>>>>>>>>>> items to the list, the form is scrolled off the bottom of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The main question is: what is going to be used more? Will it
>>>>>>>>>>> be the
>>>>>>>>>>> list or
>>>>>>>>>>> the add form?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If in most cases it will be the list, and if you have to
scroll
>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>>> time to see it... that's a pain.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
