A lot of assumptions in this email...... perhaps a question for you: who wrote the help screens in the old ebay component?
please guide me to another place where this component is explained? Regards Hans On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 00:16 -0700, Scott Gray wrote: > On 4/02/2010, at 10:58 PM, Sam Hamilton wrote: > > > Couple of things > > > > 1. calling one ebay and one ebaystore is confusing when browsing the > > source tree - perhaps once we know what the difference is between them > > call them that? If its correct - call one eBay-XML and the other > > eBay-API for example. > > One uses direct XML and the other is using eBay's SDK to do the heavy > lifting. They both use the same API and the use of the SDK is mostly just a > excuse for implementing the same thing in a different way. > > > > > 2. eBay has a huge amount of developer documentation once we know what > > the difference is how about putting a README file in the folder of each > > pointing to the eBay docs showing what each component is capable of > > achieving? http://developer.ebay.com/ > > Both have the potential to achieve the same goals but it is likely they will > just end up taking two different approaches to achieve the same thing. > Hans may document his component but the other component will likely remain as > is (it may have some documentation, I don't know). Either way, the need to > document (and continue to document as the components change) the differences > between the two is just additional effort required by the community for no > good reason, or at least I'm yet to hear a good reason other than "sorry I'm > in a hurry". > > > 3. If the ebaystore module does everything that the ebay module > > currently does then why is getting rid of ebay module a bad thing? > > There is no guarantee (and it seems pretty unlikely) that the ebaystore will > do everything that the ebay module does, while they may achieve the same > goals the differences from the user's perspective will likely be quite large. > The main reason for the new implementation is that Hans doesn't understand > the existing one and found it easier to just start fresh. > > All we're really ending up with here is a stack of duplication and additional > analysis effort with no benefit. > > > > > Sam > > > > > > On 05/02/2010 12:42, Tim Ruppert wrote: > >> How can introducing another EBay implementation because a fellow committer > >> is just too far down that road really ok for the rest of the project? Try > >> explaining it to anyone trying to use the system why this was done - > >> unfortunately we can't (don't know the original gap or what was solved by > >> this new system) so we have basically forked the Ebay component because > >> someone didn't want to do the proper analysis about even what they're > >> getting with this new system. > >> > >> It's just unfortunate. Fellow committer - again thanks for trying to push > >> things forward - you do that that after and we all appreciate it, but if > >> you weren't in such a hurry sometimes, we'd have more substantive > >> conversation that would lead to a better software product for you, your > >> customers and the rest of the community. Instead, we've not only got a > >> new Ebay component, but everyone also gets additional analysis to on top > >> of trying to figure out Ebay. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Ruppert > >> > >> On Feb 4, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > >> > >>> I will try to have a look today, in order to introduce a 3d party in this > >>> discussion... > >>> > >>> Jacques > >>> > >>> From: "Scott Gray" <scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com> > >>> Haan, > >>> > >>> I'm sorry to hear that, I guess if no one else feels strongly about this > >>> then I'll bow out and allow you to continue with your > >>> duplication of existing code. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> Scott > >>> > >>> HotWax Media > >>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com > >>> > >>> On 3/02/2010, at 11:52 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >>> > >>>> Scoot, > >>>> > >>>> i am sorry. As I mentioned in another email jacopo already saw that we > >>>> are too far down the road. I cannot change. Anybody with Ebay knowledge > >>>> would appreciate this contribution and replace the old ebay component > >>>> directly with the new one. > >>>> > >>>> I am sorry i am very busy here and cannot spend more time on this. > >>>> > >>>> Hans. > >>>> > >>>> p.s. my reaction was on my proposal to have a "work in progress list > >>>> added" irrelevant anyway. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 23:35 -0800, Scott Gray wrote: > >>>>> On 3/02/2010, at 11:04 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Scott, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I only wondering why you send this email, can you explain that to me? > >>>>> > >>>>> As I mentioned below, your commits indicated that you are continuing in > >>>>> your current direction which is something I disagree > >>>>> with, I was hoping some agreement could be reached through discussion. > >>>>> Was it in some way unreasonable to send the email? > >>>>> > >>>>>> Anyway, thanks for asking, i still think it is required. It showed with > >>>>>> the ebay component: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1. creators of the original component would have liked to discuss it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe I missed them but what questions have you asked regarding the > >>>>> current implementation that someone could respond to? > >>>>> Regardless, once the code becomes part of the project there is no > >>>>> longer any requirement for the original developers to provide > >>>>> you with code support, and that lack of support doesn't necessarily > >>>>> give you a green light to create a duplicate component which > >>>>> will ultimately cause harm to the community. > >>>>> > >>>>>> 2. a non committer had already developed a component as we just did. > >>>>> > >>>>> Huh? How is that relevant? > >>>>> > >>>>>> so a lot of effort could have been saved here..... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> However if nobody wants it, sure i will give up. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> don't worry about that. > >>>>> > >>>>> It's not about not wanting your eBay contributions, it's about avoiding > >>>>> duplication in the project which will leave users > >>>>> confused and with additional analysis to do and I'm yet to see a good > >>>>> reason for this other than that it is easier for you. > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>> Hans > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 22:40 -0800, Scott Gray wrote: > >>>>>>> Hi Hans, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Based on your recent commits I guess your considering this discussion > >>>>>>> over? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Regards > >>>>>>> Scott > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 3/02/2010, at 1:01 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Jacopo, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> what we need is a wiki page where people can announce activities and > >>>>>>>>> plans. Not only from committers but also from contributors and > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > >>>>>>>>> even users. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I have proposed this before. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think we already have something similar: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> In this case we tried to extend the existing ebay component but > >>>>>>>>> found > >>>>>>>>> out that the xml interface could never support the required > >>>>>>>>> functions as > >>>>>>>>> we needed them. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This is not a good reason for stopping your research about supported > >>>>>>>> features and building a new component. > >>>>>>>> The valid options I see are: > >>>>>>>> 1) adding *new* features to the original component using the > >>>>>>>> different technology > >>>>>>>> 2) and enhancing the existing features, where needed, using the XML > >>>>>>>> approach or > >>>>>>>> 3) reimplement the existing features in the original component with > >>>>>>>> the new technology before enhancing them > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jacopo > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Please also remember that not all required functions > >>>>>>>>> were known from the start. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Hans > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 08:30 +0100, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Hans, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> first of all, thank you for contributing this big amount of code. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:05 AM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Scott, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I am also not sure if we need 2 components. That can only be > >>>>>>>>>>> decided by > >>>>>>>>>>> the users of the original Ebay component isn't it? I do not know > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> user requirements of the original ebay component. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Having two components with potentially overlapping features for > >>>>>>>>>> the same integration in the official trunk will cause > >>>>>>>>>> maintenance problems and confusion; I guess we will all agree on > >>>>>>>>>> this. > >>>>>>>>>> I am not asking you to redo your job, it is too late, but... can > >>>>>>>>>> we agree that from now on, before implementing a new > >>>>>>>>>> feature in the trunk (or, even worst, before adding a new > >>>>>>>>>> component) we have to study and understand what already exists and > >>>>>>>>>> do our best to enhance the existing stuff? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Now we moved the new functionality to a separate component it is > >>>>>>>>>>> getting > >>>>>>>>>>> more clear if the old component is still required or not. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> This is a pain, but we will do this, I can't see another solution > >>>>>>>>>> now, as soon as you have completed your work: instead of > >>>>>>>>>> you studying the original ebay component we will have to study > >>>>>>>>>> your new work and verify if the new component implements all > >>>>>>>>>> the features covered by the old one and in the same way; if this > >>>>>>>>>> will not be true... I don't know what we will do. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Jacopo > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Let us first complete the new component and get it fully tested > >>>>>>>>>>> and then > >>>>>>>>>>> restart this discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>> Hans > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 19:46 -0800, Scott Gray wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay so once I saw this I took the 5 minutes necessary to look > >>>>>>>>>>>> at eBay's services and start thinking that this commit is a > >>>>>>>>>>>> bad idea. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please correct me if any of the following is wrong: > >>>>>>>>>>>> - When you originally brought this up, you described the problem > >>>>>>>>>>>> as one of XML vs. API but I think what you actually meant > >>>>>>>>>>>> is eBay SDK vs. using XML directly? > >>>>>>>>>>>> - You mentioned that the API (SDK) provides additional > >>>>>>>>>>>> functionality but it appears to me that it simply abstracts the > >>>>>>>>>>>> use > >>>>>>>>>>>> of raw SOAP or XML when interacting with the actual API? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Based on this I'm not sure that we should have separate > >>>>>>>>>>>> components but that the XML based component should just be moved > >>>>>>>>>>>> to using the SDK (assuming there are only advantages and no > >>>>>>>>>>>> disadvantages in doing so). Doing anything else will just > >>>>>>>>>>>> result in twice as much code to maintain with both components > >>>>>>>>>>>> doing the same thing (or worse yet, similar things but with > >>>>>>>>>>>> huge differences in implementation from the user's perspective). > >>>>>>>>>>>> Converting the existing XML integration to use the SDK > >>>>>>>>>>>> will ensure that we have a single solution in place and that no > >>>>>>>>>>>> functionality in the existing component is lost. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards > >>>>>>>>>>>> Scott > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> HotWax Media > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/02/2010, at 7:16 PM, hans...@apache.org wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Author: hansbak > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed Feb 3 03:16:07 2010 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> New Revision: 905876 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=905876&view=rev > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Log: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> move the java api functions from the existing ebay component to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the new ebaystore component: no functional changes > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > -- Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
