This all reminds me of the ideas behind "Tragedy of the Commons":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons Software doesn't typically represent a limited resource that can be overused, so that's not what I mean. What I mean is the more general idea behind that of how people interact with shared resources and the effect on everyone's long-term interest in it. It's not a new pattern, but one we'll have to work around if the community and the software are to remain strong and viable. -David On Mar 6, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Scott Gray wrote: > Your problem Hans, is that you spend too much time believing you are being > personally attacked and not enough time dealing with the actual issues being > discussed. It always appears that your first response to any feedback is to > attempt to ignore it, things then always end up escalating as they have done > here. > > Personally, I've stopped reviewing most of your commits because you only ever > saw it as a negative thing and I can't be bothered fighting with you. > > Regards > Scott > > On 6/03/2010, at 2:55 AM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >> I give up already before your message, Tim. >> >> as happened often in the past as with the setup application, with the >> myportal application, with the birt integration, with the new ebay >> component and now with this twitter account, i get really tired by >> certain people fighting, especially new, additions to the system. For >> the good of the project? i am sorry i do not think so. Certain people >> like to show their powers only. Read other mailinglists how other people >> think about ofbiz and how many people are using ofbiz but do not >> contribute. >> >> Discussion before hand? I think it gets then even more problematic, it >> takes too long time, my customer does not want to wait for. >> >> I am now slowly considering creating components outside of ofbiz like is >> happening in china and France because it is causing too much grief and >> discussion to get it into ofbiz. >> >> Regards, >> Hans >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 01:48 -0700, Tim Ruppert wrote: >>> Please send me the credentials as well - I'd like to update the Bio and >>> make this actually look like an ASF resource if we're being forced into >>> having something else to maintain. We all have twitter feeds, but we >>> didn't post them on the front page acting like they are coming from the >>> project - this is the inherent problem. >>> >>> Btw, Hans, in the future, I would appreciate you talking BEFORE you >>> starting making more things for the project to be in charge of - ebaystore, >>> twitter account for the project, etc, etc. I'm a willing participant, but >>> just because you have commit privileges doesn't mean that you shouldn't >>> have conversations about what you're doing and why. I think that if you >>> followed this guideline, and looked for some more help before diving on >>> issues, you might find that there are plenty of people that are interested >>> in your ideas and they might contribute to a higher quality product than >>> you're tossing out by yourself (this is at least something I've always >>> subscribed to). >>> >>> Just my two cents .... I still think this commit should be reverted until >>> we figure out a process and plan to support Twitter (if this indeed is >>> something that the ASF allows and we are into supporting as a group). Love >>> the enthusiasm all around. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ruppert >>> >>> On Mar 5, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Scott Gray wrote: >>> >>>> Ah I see, you really must send me a copy of the Hans Bakker rule book for >>>> use of the 'official' OFBiz twitter account. >>>> >>>> By the way, you offered to send the account credentials to any committers >>>> that requested it, please send me the credentials. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> On 5/03/2010, at 8:33 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>> >>>>> sure if you provide some tweets of your own...sorry only fighting a new >>>>> feature is not rewarded. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 20:11 -0700, Scott Gray wrote: >>>>>> Thanks, while your at it you may as well spell Pranay's name correctly >>>>>> too. >>>>>> >>>>>> And since I've now spent some time helping you with the feed, could you >>>>>> please add my name to the Bio section, I feel like I deserve some credit >>>>>> for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 8:06 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sure Scott, twitter has been changed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 19:37 -0700, Scott Gray wrote: >>>>>>>> Here's an example of why the whole thing makes me uncomfortable: >>>>>>>> Latest tweet from apache_ofbiz: >>>>>>>> "Using Ajax in Ofbiz? Check part 6 in the ofbiz development tutorial >>>>>>>> guide at http://j.mp/bvTEwU . A pity it is not using forms.Thanks >>>>>>>> Praney" >>>>>>>> The 3rd sentence is quite clearly an opinion and thus Hans' opinion is >>>>>>>> now the opinion of the project in the eyes of people reading these >>>>>>>> tweets. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 7:31 PM, Scott Gray wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The key point you are missing here Hans is that nobody asked you to >>>>>>>>> provide this "service" to the community on behalf of the project and >>>>>>>>> you have no right to do so. You are very clearly violating the ASF's >>>>>>>>> policies and I would ask you kindly to revert your revert of my >>>>>>>>> revert. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you really believe that this is something that is wanted then >>>>>>>>> request a vote on the PMC list and I will gladly accept the result. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 7:13 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I answered all outstanding questions and concerns and consider these >>>>>>>>>> issues resolved. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 19:03 -0700, Scott Gray wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Reverted in r919688, I am in no way comfortable with you running a >>>>>>>>>>> twitter feed and pretending that it represents the OFBiz project >>>>>>>>>>> regardless of your intentions. If you want to do something like >>>>>>>>>>> this then get it approved by the PMC first. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 12:26 AM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here an answer for all the questions about this twitter >>>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> First of all, as i already said, i was just making promotion for >>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz, >>>>>>>>>>>> to the casual end user who want to see what is happening and may >>>>>>>>>>>> later >>>>>>>>>>>> get involved. >>>>>>>>>>>> Do i do this for free? No, i want something back, only that >>>>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems is mentioned somewhere doing this service. As long >>>>>>>>>>>> as i do >>>>>>>>>>>> it alone i think this is pretty reasonable. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is this an Antwebsystems account? >>>>>>>>>>>> No it is not. The antwebsystems account is >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/ofbiz_support >>>>>>>>>>>> and my personal account is: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/hansbak . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you go to http://antwebsystems.com you will see these tweets at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> right hand side of the website. I think this would also be nice >>>>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz website, of course the OFBiz account only :-) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is my contribution to the Apache OFBiz project. It has >>>>>>>>>>>> nothing to >>>>>>>>>>>> do with the apache foundation, it is just OFBiz. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Will it be accessible to all contributors? >>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, running a professional twitter account takes time and >>>>>>>>>>>> effort. Any >>>>>>>>>>>> contributor interested helping here is very welcome, as long we >>>>>>>>>>>> keep the >>>>>>>>>>>> target user in mind: the potential end user. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this clears up everything and we can return back to what >>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>> are doing best: promote and improve OFBiz. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Hans. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. If somebody is interested helping let me know i will give you >>>>>>>>>>>> access if you are a committer. If you are a contributor send your >>>>>>>>>>>> tweets >>>>>>>>>>>> to @apache_ofbiz and i will retweet them if they fit the target >>>>>>>>>>>> audience. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates >>>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates >> >
