This all reminds me of the ideas behind "Tragedy of the Commons":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Software doesn't typically represent a limited resource that can be overused, 
so that's not what I mean. What I mean is the more general idea behind that of 
how people interact with shared resources and the effect on everyone's 
long-term interest in it. It's not a new pattern, but one we'll have to work 
around if the community and the software are to remain strong and viable.

-David


On Mar 6, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Scott Gray wrote:

> Your problem Hans, is that you spend too much time believing you are being 
> personally attacked and not enough time dealing with the actual issues being 
> discussed.  It always appears that your first response to any feedback is to 
> attempt to ignore it, things then always end up escalating as they have done 
> here.
> 
> Personally, I've stopped reviewing most of your commits because you only ever 
> saw it as a negative thing and I can't be bothered fighting with you.
> 
> Regards
> Scott
> 
> On 6/03/2010, at 2:55 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
> 
>> I give up already before your message, Tim.
>> 
>> as happened often in the past as with the setup application, with the
>> myportal application, with the birt integration, with the new ebay
>> component and now with this twitter account, i get really tired by
>> certain people fighting, especially new, additions to the system. For
>> the good of the project? i am sorry i do not think so. Certain people
>> like to show their powers only. Read other mailinglists how other people
>> think about ofbiz and how many people are using ofbiz but do not
>> contribute.
>> 
>> Discussion before hand? I think it gets then even more problematic, it
>> takes too long time, my customer does not want to wait for.
>> 
>> I am now slowly considering creating components outside of ofbiz like is
>> happening in china and France because it is causing too much grief and
>> discussion to get it into ofbiz.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Hans
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 01:48 -0700, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>> Please send me the credentials as well - I'd like to update the Bio and 
>>> make this actually look like an ASF resource if we're being forced into 
>>> having something else to maintain.  We all have twitter feeds, but we 
>>> didn't post them on the front page acting like they are coming from the 
>>> project - this is the inherent problem.
>>> 
>>> Btw, Hans, in the future, I would appreciate you talking BEFORE you 
>>> starting making more things for the project to be in charge of - ebaystore, 
>>> twitter account for the project, etc, etc.  I'm a willing participant, but 
>>> just because you have commit privileges doesn't mean that you shouldn't 
>>> have conversations about what you're doing and why.  I think that if you 
>>> followed this guideline, and looked for some more help before diving on 
>>> issues, you might find that there are plenty of people that are interested 
>>> in your ideas and they might contribute to a higher quality product than 
>>> you're tossing out by yourself (this is at least something I've always 
>>> subscribed to).
>>> 
>>> Just my two cents ....  I still think this commit should be reverted until 
>>> we figure out a process and plan to support Twitter (if this indeed is 
>>> something that the ASF allows and we are into supporting as a group).  Love 
>>> the enthusiasm all around.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ruppert
>>> 
>>> On Mar 5, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Scott Gray wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Ah I see, you really must send me a copy of the Hans Bakker rule book for 
>>>> use of the 'official' OFBiz twitter account.
>>>> 
>>>> By the way, you offered to send the account credentials to any committers 
>>>> that requested it, please send me the credentials.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Scott
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 8:33 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> sure if you provide some tweets of your own...sorry only fighting a new
>>>>> feature is not rewarded.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 20:11 -0700, Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks, while your at it you may as well spell Pranay's name correctly 
>>>>>> too.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And since I've now spent some time helping you with the feed, could you 
>>>>>> please add my name to the Bio section, I feel like I deserve some credit 
>>>>>> for it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 8:06 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sure Scott, twitter has been changed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 19:37 -0700, Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>>>> Here's an example of why the whole thing makes me uncomfortable:
>>>>>>>> Latest tweet from apache_ofbiz:
>>>>>>>> "Using Ajax in Ofbiz? Check part 6 in the ofbiz development tutorial 
>>>>>>>> guide at http://j.mp/bvTEwU . A pity it is not using forms.Thanks 
>>>>>>>> Praney"
>>>>>>>> The 3rd sentence is quite clearly an opinion and thus Hans' opinion is 
>>>>>>>> now the opinion of the project in the eyes of people reading these 
>>>>>>>> tweets.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 7:31 PM, Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The key point you are missing here Hans is that nobody asked you to 
>>>>>>>>> provide this "service" to the community on behalf of the project and 
>>>>>>>>> you have no right to do so.  You are very clearly violating the ASF's 
>>>>>>>>> policies and I would ask you kindly to revert your revert of my 
>>>>>>>>> revert.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If you really believe that this is something that is wanted then 
>>>>>>>>> request a vote on the PMC list and I will gladly accept the result.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 7:13 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I answered all outstanding questions and concerns and consider these
>>>>>>>>>> issues resolved.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 19:03 -0700, Scott Gray wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Reverted in r919688, I am in no way comfortable with you running a 
>>>>>>>>>>> twitter feed and pretending that it represents the OFBiz project 
>>>>>>>>>>> regardless of your intentions.  If you want to do something like 
>>>>>>>>>>> this then get it approved by the PMC first.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/03/2010, at 12:26 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here an answer for all the questions about this twitter 
>>>>>>>>>>>> account.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> First of all, as i already said, i was just making promotion for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz,
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the casual end user who want to see what is happening and may 
>>>>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>>>>> get involved.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do i do this for free? No, i want something back, only that
>>>>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems is mentioned somewhere doing this service. As long 
>>>>>>>>>>>> as i do
>>>>>>>>>>>> it alone i think this is pretty reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this an Antwebsystems account?
>>>>>>>>>>>> No it is not. The antwebsystems account is
>>>>>>>>>>>>    http://twitter.com/ofbiz_support 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and my personal account is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>    http://twitter.com/hansbak .
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you go to http://antwebsystems.com you will see these tweets at 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> right hand side of the website. I think this would also be nice 
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz website, of course the OFBiz account only :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is my contribution to the Apache OFBiz project. It has 
>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do with the apache foundation, it is just OFBiz. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will it be accessible to all contributors?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, running a professional twitter account takes time and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> effort. Any
>>>>>>>>>>>> contributor interested helping here is very welcome, as long we 
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>> target user in mind: the potential end user.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this clears up everything and we can return back to what 
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> are doing best: promote and improve OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hans.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. If somebody is interested helping let me know i will give you
>>>>>>>>>>>> access if you are a committer. If you are a contributor send your 
>>>>>>>>>>>> tweets
>>>>>>>>>>>> to @apache_ofbiz and i will retweet them if they fit the target
>>>>>>>>>>>> audience.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality OFBiz services for competitive rates
>> 
> 

Reply via email to