I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether that is good enough for the majority of the users.
I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz. So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone to go into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default that is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs). Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority. That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is beside the reality I am faced with. A reality that others might have as well. It seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* Services & Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail & Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum < adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote: > I agree the importance is in the arguments. > > You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings in > a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have pointed > out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being forced > to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production environment > using the OOTB settings. > > So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being > argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in the > best interest of the community. > > Adrian Crum > Sandglass Software > www.sandglass-software.com > > On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote: > >> The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be >> considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings. >> >> Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me >> wonder >> whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at >> heart. >> >> Pierre Smits >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* >> Services & Solutions for Cloud- >> Based Manufacturing, Professional >> Services and Retail & Trade >> http://www.orrtiz.com >> >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on >>> you. >>> >>> Pierre Smits >>> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>> Services and Retail & Trade >>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray <scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but >>>> that's >>>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong >>>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* >>>>> >>>> EVERYONE to >>>> >>>>> spend time and money to get it back in? >>>>> >>>>> Pierre Smits >>>>> >>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* >>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- >>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>>>> Services and Retail & Trade >>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum < >>>>> adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Jacques, >>>>>> >>>>>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying >>>>>> *force* everyone to do things your way. >>>>>> >>>>>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a >>>>>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is >>>>>> >>>>> different. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to >>>>>> do >>>>>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log? >>>>>> >>>>>> Adrian Crum >>>>>> Sandglass Software >>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily >>>>>>> >>>>>> fix >>>> >>>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way >>>>>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz >>>>>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and >>>>>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few >>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the >>>>>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when >>>>>>>> investigating log files. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> costs >>>> >>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs. >>>>>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in >>>>>>>>> identification >>>>>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc), >>>>>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OFBiz >>>> >>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc) >>>>>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* >>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- >>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade >>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray < >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On what basis? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I support reverting this regression. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* >>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- >>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato < >>>>>>>>>>> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux < >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> error.log in >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure >>>>>>>>>>>> logging: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> than the >>>>>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> it but >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> me or >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> this >>>> >>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> other; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you >>>>>>>>>>>> have been >>>>>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning >>>>>>>>>>>> of this >>>>>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread >>>>>>>>>>>> recently) >>>>>>>>>>>> but I >>>>>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jacopo >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>
