I'm not sure that's right... We use the provided cert/key from Infra directly. 
No per-sign fee.

> On Sep 10, 2026, at 1:52 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 10.09.2026 um 19:36 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> How can that be? Apple signing doesn't use a service afaik.
> 
> Apple hides it as usual. As much as i understand the process is that Xcode 
> downloads a cert chain from apple developer.
> 
> And uses that cert to sign the binaries. All happens local. you find some 
> explanations in our build script.
> 
> https://github.com/apache/openoffice/blob/trunk/main/solenv/bin/macosx-codesign.sh
> 
> I just have a high level understanding at the moment. did not have the time 
> to deepdive.
> 
> If you need more info look in the orig pushed branch: HEAD~2 there you see a 
> .agent folder.
> In that folder should be a long detailed documentation about both topics from 
> the branch.
> On bazel i usually request that the documentation is stored in the module, 
> but i dont do that on trunk.
> 
> Since normally i work on bazel since it is cheaper for the AI there. I just 
> dont have bazel for mac yet.
> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 1:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 10.09.2026 um 16:32 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>> I believe that is just w/ Windows signing, and not Apple.
>>> That was true but even that changed when we switched the service.
>>> 
>>> I need to experiment a bit around. I would like to keep the signing as part 
>>> of the build.
>>> 
>>> But maybe add it as Flag. Not sure, what is best. cool would be if you 
>>> could reference the key to use with -signkey="key name"
>>> If the Flag is not given the package is not signed. Maybe that could be 
>>> nice for all build targets. Independant if windows, Linux or Mac.
>>> In case of Linux would be maybe nice for flatpack or snap.
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 10:15 AM, Dave Fisher <[email protected] 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unless things have changed signing with ASF credentials is not free. If 
>>>>> continuing with Peter’s plan then a distinction needs to be made between 
>>>>> signing a developer’s or ci build, and signing a release build.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 4:24 AM, Jim Jagielski <[email protected] 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Whatever you want. I'm done.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 6:54 AM, Peter Kovacs <[email protected] 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am 10. September 2026 12:24:19 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski 
>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>:
>>>>>>>> On our builds, yes of course. But we should not force someone who 
>>>>>>>> downloads the source and builds for themselves to also sign that.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Traditionally, we've always signed after we build as a separate 
>>>>>>>> process from building the community build DMGs.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hopefully that's a bit more clear :)
>>>>>>> Ok. And what solution do you propose?
>>>>>>> Apple says packaging involves signing. You can not change that.
>>>>>>> I am for we release proper signed software or none at all. There is no 
>>>>>>> in between anymore.
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 5:59 AM, Peter Kovacs <[email protected] 
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Am 10. September 2026 11:47:21 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski 
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>:
>>>>>>>>>> I can't imagine the regular user wanting/needing to sign...
>>>>>>>>> Sorry maybe I was not clear.
>>>>>>>>> I think we should enforce signing on all builds.
>>>>>>>>> The user can always see if that build is from us or someone else. 
>>>>>>>>> Development builds will always trigger the gatekeeper.
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 5:38 AM, Peter Kovacs <[email protected] 
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Am 10. September 2026 11:30:18 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski 
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>>:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also wondering if the actual signing script itself should be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> in devtools, somewhere under release-scripts instead.
>>>>>>>>>>> The process ist to sign the app, then package the image, and then 
>>>>>>>>>>> you need to sign again.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I would rather enforce signing to be mandatory.
>>>>>>>>>>> What we could put into Devtools maybe is the notarize of the 
>>>>>>>>>>> installer. Which publishes the release at Apple. I guess. And then 
>>>>>>>>>>> we could think about a process to publish in the store.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cool work.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. I hope this will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 5:14 AM, Jim Jagielski <[email protected] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any way you could pull out just the signing bits into a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate commit?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2026, at 12:26 AM, [email protected] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>>>> "This is an outrage!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   Tony Harrison
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
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>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>> "This is an outrage!"
>>>>>>>>>>                    Tony Harrison
>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>> "This is an outrage!"
>>>>>>>>                     Tony Harrison
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>> "This is an outrage!"
>>>>>>                       Tony Harrison
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] 
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>>>> --
>>>> Jim
>>>>   "This is an outrage!"
>>>>                         Tony Harrison
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> --
>> Jim
>>   "This is an outrage!"
>>                         Tony Harrison
>> 
>> 
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  "This is an outrage!"
                        Tony Harrison

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