Hi Alkis,
I saw you addressed and resolved the comments in the doc. Thank you.
This looks good to me.
I would recommend others that have been active in this conversation to take
a final look.
Best
Julien

On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 3:06 PM Julien Le Dem <[email protected]> wrote:

> I am also OK with the proposed solution in the document.
> However I think the doc itself needs one last wording change.
> I have left more details in comments but here is the gist:
> This effort is driven by a group of people in the community and not one
> vendor in particular even if said people do sometimes work for vendors.
> To reflect this, instead of saying the UUID identifies a Vendor, we should
> describe it as an extension ID.
> Then I'd remove all instances of the word "Vendor" and instead
> refer to "Extensions" identified by this UUID.
> This might not change anything to the implementation but it is important
> to reflecting how the community works in the document.
>
> Specifically:
>
> "Vendor introduces a Flatbuffers variant of FileMetaData." => "This
> extension introduces a Flatbuffers variant of FileMetaData..."
>
> "The UUID is picked by the Vendor once and used throughout the
> experiments." => "The UUID is picked for this specific extension and used
> throughout the experiments."
>
> "At some point Vendor decides that this is amazing and should be shared
> with the world at large to advance Parquet. " => "At some point, the
> community decides this extension is ready and proposed for inclusion."
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 10:11 PM Micah Kornfield <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alkis,
>> Thanks for the revision.  I'm OK with this as is, we can maybe wait a few
>> more days to see if anybody else has comments and then discuss
>> implementation of the extension mechanism?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Micah
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 10:22 PM Alkis Evlogimenos
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > After Jul 17th's Parquet Sync feedback I have updated the extensions
>> > proposal to remove the "reservation" mechanism. The updates are already
>> > reflected in the document
>> > <
>> >
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KkoR0DjzYnLQXO-d0oRBv2k157IZU0_injqd4eV4WiI/edit
>> > >
>> > and
>> > the PR <https://github.com/apache/parquet-format/pull/254>.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jun 28, 2024 at 10:02 AM Alkis Evlogimenos <
>> > [email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > I think we can at least have wording to encourage people doing
>> > > extensions to post them publicly and as part of the "reservation"
>> > mechanism
>> > > post a link the repo that they are being developed in, if anyone is
>> > curious.
>> > >
>> > > Good point. I will try to come up with something in the PR - unless
>> you
>> > > beat me to it :)
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2024 at 7:15 AM Micah Kornfield <
>> [email protected]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 1. experimentation/prototyping is more often than not faster to
>> > iterate
>> > >> if
>> > >> > it is closed. Allowing this model of development was a primary
>> goal of
>> > >> the
>> > >> > design.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> I agree there are advantages here.  I think a large amount of speed
>> > comes
>> > >> from not having to gain consensus in the community.
>> > >>
>> > >> At the end of the day, I don't think there is any mechanism here to
>> > ensure
>> > >> everybody works in public, but I think we can at least have wording
>> to
>> > >> encourage people doing extensions to post them publicly and as part
>> of
>> > the
>> > >> "reservation" mechanism post a link the repo that they are being
>> > developed
>> > >> in, if anyone is curious.  I think this would be particularly useful
>> if
>> > >> there really is an intent for a number of organizations to experiment
>> > with
>> > >> new footer designs (but possibly also in others).
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks,
>> > >> Micah
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:33 AM Alkis Evlogimenos
>> > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Thank you for taking a look Micah.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On the topic of openness there are various aspects that we have
>> > >> considered.
>> > >> > 1. experimentation/prototyping is more often than not faster to
>> > iterate
>> > >> if
>> > >> > it is closed. Allowing this model of development was a primary
>> goal of
>> > >> the
>> > >> > design.
>> > >> > 2. when the design is final, keeping the design closed should have
>> > some
>> > >> > drawbacks. Duplicating content to support old readers puts some
>> > natural
>> > >> > incentive to make extensions official because at that point one can
>> > drop
>> > >> > the fat from the files and move on. Another aspect of the design is
>> > the
>> > >> > choice of a single extension field-id which makes the extension
>> space
>> > >> tiny.
>> > >> > This in turn means that it is difficult to interop with others
>> without
>> > >> > breaking their extensions. Ergo the easiest path to any interop is
>> to
>> > >> open
>> > >> > the extension.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The above, while not enforcing work to happen in the open, strike
>> some
>> > >> > balance in between.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I am open to suggestions on how to further incentivize opening
>> > >> extensions.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 6:04 PM Micah Kornfield <
>> > [email protected]>
>> > >> > wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Hi Alkis,
>> > >> > > I'm generally in favor of this, my main concern/question is
>> trying
>> > to
>> > >> > > encourage work to be in the open.  I don't think in the long run
>> it
>> > is
>> > >> > good
>> > >> > > for users to always have proprietary extensions inside of
>> Parquet.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > IMO, I think the next steps would be to add implementations to
>> write
>> > >> out
>> > >> > > the footer extension points.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Thanks,
>> > >> > > Micah
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 1:24 PM Alkis Evlogimenos
>> > >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > > The snafus are fixed. The original should work now.
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > On Sun, 23 Jun 2024, 17:58 Alkis Evlogimenos, <
>> > >> > > > [email protected]> wrote:
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > > Due to some sharing snafus with automation, please request
>> > access
>> > >> to
>> > >> > > > > comment. If you are just reading I've published this here:
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vThXkhHNozn_p1ZZWF-nCzOtoP1lKmkaV4Legq2FaRiIgwyY2XC9AmKpBtpeF8jbBB4wfjmQ6UTg03k/pub
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 10:29 AM Alkis Evlogimenos <
>> > >> > > > > [email protected]> wrote:
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > >> Hey folks.
>> > >> > > > >>
>> > >> > > > >> I want to move the extension PR
>> > >> > > > >> <https://github.com/apache/parquet-format/pull/254>
>> forward.
>> > >> > > > >> Unfortunately the discussion was spread across the PR, other
>> > >> threads
>> > >> > > and
>> > >> > > > >> documents making it slow to progress. To avoid further
>> > >> > fragmentation I
>> > >> > > > have
>> > >> > > > >> put together a document
>> > >> > > > >> <
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KkoR0DjzYnLQXO-d0oRBv2k157IZU0_injqd4eV4WiI/edit
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > >> discussing the extensions mechanism in isolation. I believe
>> the
>> > >> > > document
>> > >> > > > >> addresses all the concerns/comments from the PR and mailing
>> > list
>> > >> > > > >> discussions brought forward so far.
>> > >> > > > >>
>> > >> > > > >> I propose we continue the discussion in the document and
>> once
>> > >> > > everything
>> > >> > > > >> is addressed, we finalize the PR.
>> > >> > > > >>
>> > >> > > > >> Thank you,
>> > >> > > > >>
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

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