You have to remember that Stack Overflow crowd (like me) is highly opinionated, so many questions, which could be just fine on the mailing list, will be quickly downvoted and / or closed as off-topic. Just saying...
-- Best, Maciej On 11/07/2016 04:03 AM, Reynold Xin wrote: > OK I've checked on the ASF member list (which is private so there is > no public archive). > > It is not against any ASF rule to recommend StackOverflow as a place > for users to ask questions. I don't think we can or should delete the > existing user@spark list either, but we can certainly make SO more > visible than it is. > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Reynold Xin <r...@databricks.com > <mailto:r...@databricks.com>> wrote: > > Actually after talking with more ASF members, I believe the only > policy is that development decisions have to be made and announced > on ASF properties (dev list or jira), but user questions don't > have to. > > I'm going to double check this. If it is true, I would actually > recommend us moving entirely over the Q&A part of the user list to > stackoverflow, or at least make that the recommended way rather > than the existing user list which is not very scalable. > > > On Wednesday, November 2, 2016, Nicholas Chammas > <nicholas.cham...@gmail.com <mailto:nicholas.cham...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > We’ve discussed several times upgrading our communication > tools, as far back as 2014 and maybe even before that too. The > bottom line is that we can’t due to ASF rules requiring the > use of ASF-managed mailing lists. > > For some history, see this discussion: > > * > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/spark-user/201412.mbox/%3CCAOhmDzfL2COdysV8r5hZN8f=NqXM=f=oy5no2dhwj_kveop...@mail.gmail.com%3E > > <https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/spark-user/201412.mbox/%3CCAOhmDzfL2COdysV8r5hZN8f=NqXM=f=oy5no2dhwj_kveop...@mail.gmail.com%3E> > * > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/spark-user/201501.mbox/%3CCAOhmDzec1JdsXQq3dDwAv7eLnzRidSkrsKKG0xKw=tktxy_...@mail.gmail.com%3E > > <https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/spark-user/201501.mbox/%3CCAOhmDzec1JdsXQq3dDwAv7eLnzRidSkrsKKG0xKw=tktxy_...@mail.gmail.com%3E> > > (It’s ironic that it’s difficult to follow the past discussion > on why we can’t change our official communication tools due to > those very tools…) > > Nick > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:24 PM Ricardo Almeida > <ricardo.alme...@actnowib.com> wrote: > > I fell Assaf point is quite relevant if we want to move > this project forward from the Spark user perspective (as I > do). In fact, we're still using 20th century tools > (mailing lists) with some add-ons (like Stack Overflow). > > As usually, Sean and Cody's contributions are very to the > point. > I fell it is indeed a matter of of culture (hard to > enforce) and tools (much easier). Isn't it? > > On 2 November 2016 at 16:36, Cody Koeninger > <c...@koeninger.org> wrote: > > So concrete things people could do > > - users could tag subject lines appropriately to the > component they're > asking about > > - contributors could monitor user@ for tags relating > to components > they've worked on. > I'd be surprised if my miss rate for any mailing list > questions > well-labeled as Kafka was higher than 5% > > - committers could be more aggressive about soliciting > and merging PRs > to improve documentation. > It's a lot easier to answer even poorly-asked > questions with a link to > relevant docs. > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Sean Owen > <so...@cloudera.com> wrote: > > There's already reviews@ and issues@. dev@ is for > project development itself > > and I think is OK. You're suggesting splitting up > user@ and I sympathize > > with the motivation. Experience tells me that we'll > have a beginner@ that's > > then totally ignored, and people will quickly learn > to post to advanced@ to > > get attention, and we'll be back where we started. > Putting it in JIRA > > doesn't help. I don't think this a problem that is > merely down to lack of > > process. It actually requires cultivating a culture > change on the community > > list. > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:11 PM Mendelson, Assaf > <assaf.mendel...@rsa.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> What I am suggesting is basically to fix that. > >> > >> For example, we might say that mailing list A is > only for voting, mailing > >> list B is only for PR and have something like stack > overflow for developer > >> questions (I would even go as far as to have > beginner, intermediate and > >> advanced mailing list for users and > beginner/advanced for dev). > >> > >> > >> > >> This can easily be done using stack overflow tags, > however, that would > >> probably be harder to manage. > >> > >> Maybe using special jira tags and manage it in jira? > >> > >> > >> > >> Anyway as I said, the main issue is not user > questions (except maybe > >> advanced ones) but more for dev questions. It is so > easy to get lost in the > >> chatter that it makes it very hard for people to > learn spark internals… > >> > >> Assaf. > >> > >> > >> > >> From: Sean Owen [mailto:so...@cloudera.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 2:07 PM > >> To: Mendelson, Assaf; dev@spark.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: Handling questions in the mailing lists > >> > >> > >> > >> I think that unfortunately mailing lists don't > scale well. This one has > >> thousands of subscribers with different interests > and levels of experience. > >> For any given person, most messages will be > irrelevant. I also find that a > >> lot of questions on user@ are not well-asked, > aren't an SSCCE > >> (http://sscce.org/), not something most people are > going to bother replying > >> to even if they could answer. I almost entirely > ignore user@ because there > >> are higher-priority channels like PRs to deal with, > that already have > >> hundreds of messages per day. This is why little of > it gets an answer -- too > >> noisy. > >> > >> > >> > >> We have to have official mailing lists, in any > event, to have some > >> official channel for things like votes and > announcements. It's not wrong to > >> ask questions on user@ of course, but a lot of the > questions I see could > >> have been answered with research of existing docs > or looking at the code. I > >> think that given the scale of the list, it's not > wrong to assert that this > >> is sort of a prerequisite for asking thousands of > people to answer one's > >> question. But we can't enforce that. > >> > >> > >> > >> The situation will get better to the extent people > ask better questions, > >> help other people ask better questions, and answer > good questions. I'd > >> encourage anyone feeling this way to try to help > along those dimensions. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 11:32 AM assaf.mendelson > <assaf.mendel...@rsa.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I know this is a little off topic but I wanted to > raise an issue about > >> handling questions in the mailing list (this is > true both for the user > >> mailing list and the dev but since there are other > options such as stack > >> overflow for user questions, this is more > problematic in dev). > >> > >> Let’s say I ask a question (as I recently did). > Unfortunately this was > >> during spark summit in Europe so probably people > were busy. In any case no > >> one answered. > >> > >> The problem is, that if no one answers very soon, > the question will almost > >> certainly remain unanswered because new messages > will simply drown it. > >> > >> > >> > >> This is a common issue not just for questions but > for any comment or idea > >> which is not immediately picked up. > >> > >> > >> > >> I believe we should have a method of handling this. > >> > >> Generally, I would say these types of things belong > in stack overflow, > >> after all, the way it is built is perfect for this. > More seasoned spark > >> contributors and committers can periodically check > out unanswered questions > >> and answer them. > >> > >> The problem is that stack overflow (as well as > other targets such as the > >> databricks forums) tend to have a more user based > orientation. This means > >> that any spark internal question will almost > certainly remain unanswered. > >> > >> > >> > >> I was wondering if we could come up with a solution > for this. > >> > >> > >> > >> Assaf. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> View this message in context: Handling questions in > the mailing lists > >> Sent from the Apache Spark Developers List mailing > list archive at > >> Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@spark.apache.org > > >
