Uli, let's not make this a religious argument. If we all compromise a bit we'll see that everyone wants the same thing, a smaller open bug count. Can we just wait a bit for bulk closing anything, and in the meanwhile keep sending a message that the time to take a look at the open issues is right now; we'll be bulk closing, say after 5.4. is in beta. I know I have a few ones I've been scrambling to find some time to work on.
Kalle On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Ulrich Stärk <u...@spielviel.de> wrote: > And my objection is to wasting resources on going through every issue and > in the end still closing > most of them. > > If Robert wants to spend the time on it, I'm all for it. But I really want > to see the list of open > issues significantly reduced in the near future and I believe that the > mose time effective solution > is simply to close old ones as won't fix. > > Uli > > On 18.12.2012 12:55, Bob Harner wrote: > > Uli, my only objection is to bulk closing the issues. > > On Dec 18, 2012 6:52 AM, "Ulrich Stärk" <u...@spielviel.de> wrote: > > > >> Ok, so we keep piling them up because we don't want to hurt people's > >> feelings? Don't you think that > >> people deserve to be told the truth: "Guys, we are sorry, but this stuff > >> is old, we most likely > >> won't look at it ever because we have a lot of other tasks with higher > >> priorities, but if you feel > >> this is still an issue please confirm with a newer version of Tapestry"? > >> Same goes for feature > >> requests. If we really cared we could have implemented those old > requests > >> by now, but we don't. So > >> let's be honest and tell our users that we might find the ideas > >> interesting but lack time to > >> implement them. > >> > >> Everything else is just lying to ourselves and our users that we will > >> someday - maybe - look at it. > >> > >> So let's be honest and tell them what they know anyway: "Won't fix". > >> > >> Uli > >> > >> On 18.12.2012 12:38, Bob Harner wrote: > >>> Robert Z. has volunteered to prune the list manually. I think we should > >> see > >>> where that gets us. > >>> > >>> Let's not forget that every bug report represents a significant > >> investment > >>> of time by a Tapestry user who earnestly wants to make the framework > >>> better, and we definitely want to encourage that. A few of the bugs are > >>> pure junk, but many are well-described, with good proposed solutions, > >>> patches and, yes, even tests in some cases. > >>> > >>> I know if I were to submit a thoughtful bug report or patch to an open > >>> source project and it got casually rejected by an automated process > (and > >> I > >>> was told not to reopen it), I would be greatly discouraged from making > >> any > >>> further contributions. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 2:37 AM, Ulrich Stärk <u...@spielviel.de> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Folks, there is no sense in hording issues that we know will never be > >>>> addressed and that do nothing > >>>> else but clutter our issue tracker and block our view on the really > >> useful > >>>> ones. Please overcome the > >>>> gatherer in you. Even the best idea won't help us if there is nobody > >>>> interested in implementing it > >>>> and it only contributes to obstrucing our view on important issues. > >>>> Besides, those tickets aren't > >>>> gone. They are simply closed. > >>>> > >>>> Below is a draft of a text that I'm going to attach to the issues that > >>>> will be bulk closed. It makes > >>>> clear that the reporter is free to reopen the issue if it still > persists > >>>> or he feels strongly about > >>>> it. In case of a feature request they are required to discuss it on > the > >>>> dev mailing list first. I > >>>> hope that this will increase the chances of having only well > thought-out > >>>> ideas that are also > >>>> supported by the development community in our tracker. > >>>> > >>>> And I really recommend reading [1]. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> > >>>> Uli > >>>> > >>>> [1] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/07/09.html > >>>> > >>>> <draft comment> > >>>> This issue has been closed because it affects an old version of > Tapestry > >>>> or has no affected version > >>>> number set, and is not currently assigned to any developer. > >>>> > >>>> This ticket will most likely never be resolved or already has been > >>>> resolved as a side-effect of a > >>>> newer version of Tapestry. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> DO NOT REOPEN IT! DO NOT CREATE A NEW TICKET WITH THE SAME CONTENT! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If you feel that the issue still persists, do the following: > >>>> > >>>> 1. Try again with the most recent version of Apache Tapestry > >>>> > >>>> 2a. If you still find a bug, open a new bug report, specify the exact > >>>> version of Tapestry and those > >>>> of any components you are using, describe expected and observed > >> behavior, > >>>> and attach a minimal test > >>>> case demonstrating the issue. You will earn additional merit by > >> attaching > >>>> an automated test and/or a > >>>> fix for the issue. > >>>> > >>>> 2b. If you want to request a new feature, you are expected to discuss > it > >>>> with the Tapestry developer > >>>> community on the dev@tapestry.apache.org mailing list first. Include > a > >>>> link to the discussion in the > >>>> mail archives in your ticket. If you don't, chances are that your > ticket > >>>> will be closed right away. > >>>> </draft comment> > >>>> > >>>> On 18.12.2012 03:33, Robert Zeigler wrote: > >>>>> I think I can find some time over the course of this week to go > through > >>>> the list of tickets. > >>>>> > >>>>> Robert > >>>>> > >>>>> On Dec 17, 2012, at 12/178:31 PM , Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Well, we need some plan to tame the list. It's so cluttered that > its > >>>> hard > >>>>>> to find important things to work on. There's lots of duplicates, > and > >>>> lots > >>>>>> of things that I think can be closed as lacking sufficient detail to > >>>>>> proceed. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This is also one of those areas that can be addressed by someone who > >>>> can't > >>>>>> take on the commitment right now to do some serious lifting on the > >> code > >>>>>> base. Volunteers welcome! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Bob Harner <bobhar...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'd be more cautious. Some of the open issues contain good ideas > that > >>>>>>> simply lack an interested committer. I agree that most should be > >>>> closed, > >>>>>>> but a blind bulk action seems unwise. > >>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2012 1:20 PM, "Howard Lewis Ship" <hls...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> +1 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think we can get away with this approach ; so much it no longer > >>>>>>> relevant > >>>>>>>> in 5.4. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 6:05 AM, Massimo Lusetti < > >> mluse...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Ulrich Stärk <u...@spielviel.de> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I am inclined to bulk close these with a message that the > reporter > >>>> is > >>>>>>>>> free > >>>>>>>>>> to check if the issue > >>>>>>>>>> still persists with a more recent version of the framework. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thoughts? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I do agree, totally. Plus thanks for taking care. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Massimo > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Creator of Apache Tapestry > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact > me > >> to > >>>>>>>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> (971) 678-5210 > >>>>>>>> http://howardlewisship.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Creator of Apache Tapestry > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me > to > >>>>>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (971) 678-5210 > >>>>>> http://howardlewisship.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tapestry.apache.org > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tapestry.apache.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tapestry.apache.org > >> > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tapestry.apache.org > >
