Daniel, it sounds like we need to quickly turn and correct any conversation that introduces the perception that "non-individuals" are doing stuff in our project (even when that is not really what the intention is). Your cartoonish example, as you called it, made sense to me.
I think HipChat is a good place to start as well. It sounded like a lot of folks wanted to join to hear what was going on here, it seems like scheduling a time when a talk could happen would be good. Jon, maybe you could throw out a few days when you might be able to join the HipChat room and we could converge on something that works. On Oct 11, 2015 11:05 AM, "Marko Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hey Jon, > > Perhaps lets start slow and surefooted by jumping into TinkerPop's Apache > HipChat room sometime this week. The public URL for anyone to join and chat > is here: > > https://www.hipchat.com/gz5JlgJBC > > This way Gruno can monitor the discussion and if he feels comfortable with > how things are unfolding, then we can increase the bandwidth accordingly. > > I'm in there all day 5 days a week, but if you want to propose a specific > time, please do. > > Marko. > > http://markorodriguez.com > > On Oct 11, 2015, at 5:44 AM, Daniel Gruno <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 10/11/2015 03:30 AM, Jonathan Schneider wrote: > >> I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding. > > > > If anything, it might be a misunderstanding of what I wrote back. > > Companies can contribute to ASF projects, they can collaborate with > > projects, but both they AND we must do so as individuals - checking > > their company privileges, rules and hats at the door. The TinkerPop > > project cannot collaborate with a company, as we simply don't do that > > (ever), but they can collaborate with individuals of that company acting > > as individuals. My reply was as much a clarification of terms > > (contributors and collaborators) as it was a guideline. > > > >> > >> I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship between > >> Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that there > are > >> a number of parties that are working on different sides of this problem > and > >> it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether > >> Tinkerpop fits into this or not. > >> > >> The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which was > not > >> at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat, Hangouts, > or > >> whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join? > >> Perhaps recorded? > > > > Again, this depends on the independence of the people you are talking to > > and the outcome. If this is an Apache (or MIT/BSD-style) licensed open > > source project, then you are of course welcome to add support for it, > > provided you handle the press/marketing/announcement around it in a > > neutral manner, so as to not give the impression that any favors have > > been played here (I'm quite well aware of the _why_ here, but public > > perception is also a key element in staying neutral. Not only must we > > act neutral, we must also tell it in a neutral way). > > > >> > >> Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no > collaboration > >> between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be steered > by > >> private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true. > > > > That was not what I was implying, no. But, as stated above, you cannot > > collaborate with a company, only the individuals in that company. > > > > GOOD: We just collaborated with committers from the XYZ project > > BAD: We just had a conf call with $company folks, and their boss says... > > > > The above is a bit cartoonish, but I hope it illustrates my point. > > > > With regards, > > Daniel. > > > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >>> On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote: > >>>> Hello Jon, > >>>> > >>>>> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor > >>>>> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly > >>>>> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under > fetching > >>>>> problem and are more or less equivalent. > >>>> > >>>> Gotcha. > >>>> > >>>>> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and > >>> Tinkerpop > >>>>> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up > an > >>>>> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and > >>>>> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different > >>> angles? > >>>> > >>>> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait > for > >>> an answer to: > >>>> > >>>> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a > >>> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about > potential > >>> collaborations? > >>>> > >>> > >>> It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss > >>> this on the dev list. > >>> If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as a > >>> project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral. > >>> > >>> Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They > >>> can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs to > >>> program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit for > >>> this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project and > >>> likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies. > >>> > >>> With regards, > >>> Daniel. > >>> > >> > > > >
