W dniu 05.04.2014 17:18, Andrea Bernabei pisze:
Let me express my view on the subject:
It seems we all agree that Mer+Nemo merge is something which has to be
discussed in a different meeting (and in a different place).
+1
The main subject here is about making contributions easier (and more
appealing?) for *SailfishOS* users. Not Nemo, not Mer, *SailfishOS*
users, from what I understood.
As we all know, Sailfish is based on Mer/Nemo, so it's obvious that the
meeting will revolve around Mer and Nemo as well, since those are the
parts of Sailfish which are opensource.
Yes, the thing that is the topic of the meeting is improvement of the
collaboration in open source parts of Sailfish, so that obviously
includes Mer and Nemo MW, but is not limited to it (e.g. Sailfish Browser).
This means, I don't think we have to bring any other "vendor" or
whatever into this meeting. This is a Sailfish-related meeting. Once the
points will be discussed, the action points which are related to
Nemo/Mer will be discussed with said "vendors". But I see that as
something that happens *after* this meeting.
I agree. I think vendors where mentioned in context of that other topic
- Nemo/Mer merge or not.
About the current opensource/community policy at Jolla:
I have to agree with Filip when he says that those questions have been
asked long time ago already, and that not much has been done to address
the issue so far.
From what I can tell Carsten is the only one (with Jolla hat) who
really cares about improving the situation...it seems the rest of the
company doesn't really do much except "talking" about "doing it
together" and similar slogans.
I totally agree with you I also see that Carsten is without doubt the
person that wants to do sth about it as the current state of things
needs improvement. I would say it's very good that he remembers his
roots and cares about what he told in the past.
Let me get that straight, I have been doing an internship at Jolla in a
timeframe which included the launch of the device, I know that most (if
not all) the sailors really believe in those values. They really want to
do it together and make all those slogans come true.
But...but...but...there's some real action missing in the picture.
Exactly, things won't repair themselves, action is obviously needed.
It seems everyone at Jolla wants to push Sailfish into the right
direction but nobody is willing to reprioritize the important things in
the company, to allow sailors to spend more time on this aspect of the
"product".
I would say that's one of the most challenging parts of the product - to
build a healthy community around it. Dealing with people is usually a
complex topic without an easy solution in form of universal algorithm.
Jolla will *always* be in a rush to keep up with features and bugfixes,
Exactly, there will be product launches, conferences and other events in
future that can be treated as excuse that is not yet good time for
improving, but .... the time is now!
Making collaboration friendly environment is a bit like maintaining a
garden - this really needs some care and attention. Unfortunately, that
garden was neglected and sadly the results are that already some people
have left and stopped their support for Jolla and from what I've hear
others are on the edge of leaving. It's really a last call for
improvements to hold those people back. I also believe if things would
go better, some of those who lost their hope might come back.
Now, this said, I really appreciate the attempt to plan a meeting
I think all people that care about Jolla appreciate the fact of meeting,
because I do and see it as very good opportunity for Jolla and the
community to start "a new beginning". Let us not waste this chance to
make a meaningful change.
- *at least* one of the people in Jolla who can really take decisions in
the company.
I think that's what Jolla plans this time.
We all know escalating community requests to high levels
doesn't work most of the times.
Yes.
- a lot of time: there will be many people who want to express their
opinion, having the managers (people from the point above) leave because
"we have another meeting in 5 minutes" will just make things worse.
I also hope that those decisive people/managers will stay this 1.5 hour
at least and listen carefully.
I'm also thinking about organizational side of the meeting. We need to
prepare how it should look like as it cannot be a typical IRC
conversation. I believe that we should split the whole topic to well
defined, small issues/problems and focus on each of them (one problem at
a time approach) and don't allow drifting away into other areas. Of
course at the end, we need a complete picture of those issues and
actions to be taken/solutions,
I think it's also important to give opportunity for balanced discussion
that would involve both Sailors and Islanders (that's my loose proposal
of community side name). The thing I would want to avoid is a situation
where 90 Sailors will completely dominate discussion or some Islanders
turn it into a trollfest of whining and pointless complains. Therefore
we need a really good chair/discussion moderator. Personally, I would
vote for Thomas Ruecker (if he wants and agrees to that) as he has
already proved he can handle such things quite well, for example on last
FOSDEM.
I think we need to make a combined list of topics/issues and people who
want to talk on each of those topics/issues. At the end we could switch
to some free discussion or new topics that will pop up during the
discussion.
Regards,
Filip
PS. Andrea deserves a big beer for what he has written in his mail - I
agree with every single word that came from his keyboard.
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