On 04/05/2014 08:21 AM, "Thomas B. Rücker" wrote: > On 04/05/2014 08:12 AM, Carsten Munk wrote: >> On 04/04/14 19:39, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: >>> W dniu 04.04.2014 18:00, Carsten Munk pisze: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> There has been a lot of discussion surrounding SailfishOS, the open >>>> source parts of it (incl. middleware within Mer and Nemo Mobile >>>> project) >>>> and collaboration methods/practices -- and that we can do better than >>>> how things are today. >>> Hi, >>> >>> Your mail is direct reaction to this widely retweeted tweet today: >>> >>> https://twitter.com/fk_lx/status/452037379038408704 >>> >>> and previous discussion that was conducted on Twitter. It's worth to >>> notice problem was published long time ago at Together, before it became >>> hot: >>> >>> https://together.jolla.com/question/680/co-creation-leading-to-co-development/#post-id-1214 >>> >>> >>> https://together.jolla.com/question/680/co-creation-leading-to-co-development/#post-id-6833 >>> >>> >>> >>> Since that time, no significant actions have been taken to fix that, but >>> that can be understood and justified considering other important things >>> for Jolla like preparing to MWC and Sailfish going out of beta. >>> >> It's safe to say that we've been in a crazy race to conditionally >> deliver features, fixes and ensuring our existence. >> >> We would probably have had more time if we didn't switch SoC and do a >> Qt4->Qt5 + X11/Wayland transition; it's been too busy and we've lagged >> behind in doing proper open development with roadmapping ('Do >> everything needed to deliver a working product' isn't a good roadmap >> item), explaining our actions, transparency around our open source >> components. It's a good time to something about it now. >> >> The discussions you link to have been a big source of inspiration to >> do something about this topic, as there has been many valid points in >> them. >> >>> We would really like to have constructive talk with the decisive people >>> around Sailfish, that have real influence and can change how open source >>> collaboration looks in practice (whoever those people are). >>> We also want >>> for Jolla engineers who work on open source parts take part in that >>> discussion, as it's a topic that is directly connected with their work. >> I will do my best to make sure that the right people will be there - a >> meeting where nobody can take actions or act on the meeting results >> isn't a good one. >> >>> I only have doubts that if it will be normal, uncontrolled IRC >>> discussion, that it might result in chaos (like many of those that were >>> made on this topic on IRC before). >>> I wanted to give my own proposal how >>> such discussion should look like from organizational point of view, so >>> there would be a chance for it's results to be satisfying for both sides >>> (Jolla & OSS community). >>> >> I agree, we still have time to set up an agenda - first thing you need >> to do is set a date in advance to make sure people will show up, then >> a proper agenda. >> >> I've opened an etherpad at http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeeting - >> please add topics for discussion. >> >> Agenda is intentionally left blank as to make sure proper agenda items >> are brought up. >> >> A background thing for this meeting is that (this is with my Mer and >> Nemo middleware hat on), there is an idea and/or intention is to merge >> the Mer and Nemo middleware repositories and infrastructure >> (bugtracker, git repositories, OBS repositories) together under the >> Mer project. >> >> There has been a long unnatural split between Mer and Nemo middleware >> and a bit unclear one sometimes; causing also a semi-fork of Mer >> packages (Qt5) as Mer couldn't move fast enough. In the end, what most >> want from Mer is a solid mobile core and hence ended up using a >> combination of Mer and Nemo middleware anyway. >> >> In that regard, there is a good opportunity to establish new practices >> and patterns of collaboration, hence why this meeting is a good thing >> to start with. >> >> In the ideal future world from my point of view, if you'd like to >> contribute to SailfishOS open source middleware; you'd be contributing >> to Mer. Currently it is too confusing to contribute to - too much >> split information, different practices, different bugtrackers, even >> differing packaging practices, etc. > Reading this I can't help but wonder if Jolla now claims ownership of > Mer/Nemo then. Even with fancy hat changing. Bringing this discussion up > in a strictly Sailfish context implies this. > There are other downstream projects relying on Mer and I'd expect this > to be discussed with them, in a completely "vendor neutral" setting. Mer > used to be big about this, before it got dragged into a "ship a product" > race of one of the involved parties.
I think I want to expand this a bit, not to come over as hostile, which is not my intention. The following is my personal view on things. It is well known, that Jolla has been the major contributor and driver in Mer and Nemo. People who follow my statements should know that I've been also very positive about most of Jolla development regarding Mer and Nemo as used in Sailfish, leading directly to public repository commits. No big reveals for those who understood where to look. Something that I have yet to see many other commercial projects get right. What got heavily blurred along the way to the Jolla phone though was the distinction between Sailfish development and Mer/Nemo development. Sailfish is a commercial phone operating system, basing on Mer, Nemo and the Linux kernel. This means that there inevitably are things where business interests intersect with openness and the result is that things will rather be following business. It is a kind of fog of war, where it becomes unclear what is what and the main objective becomes the shipping product. Also there is a big constraint that people suddenly wear many hats and it's easy to forget which one you should wear. Rationalization becomes a huge factor. Those are from what I see natural tendencies. Also there are no other comparably sized parties contributing to Mer/Nemo. There are several other projects around it though. There is an active community on the Mer mailing list. Just to round this out a bit. There is a lot to discuss and a lot is yet to be clarified. Also why I posed the question in the first place >>> I haven't had time to made it yet, because I >>> had quite busy day, but I hope the fact that Carsten already took first >>> step and proposed a meeting does still give me a chance for doing that. >>> I think it's really important for the discussion to have proper and calm >>> form and I think it's possible considering goodwill on both sides. >> Yes, I think we can do this. >> >>> Regards, >>> Filip >>> >>> PS. Personally I really count that Marc Dillon (Head of Software >>> Development in Jolla) will take part in it. >> BR >> Carsten Munk > > Just my 0,02€ > > Thomas Another 2¢ Thomas _______________________________________________ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
