Well, hope we get more thoughts here.

W3C DDR is published, that's for sure, Maven after all is just a technical
detail. And the URL under which W3C published it won't go away, so we need
to find a a way to properly incorporate it. OR take the WURFL path of
de-facto standard if we prefer to do this for 1.0.[?]

It's like Chicken and Egg, and nobody at W3C will bother making it
available for Maven, next some project comes and requires it for Gradle,
Ivy or other build systems[?]


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Reza <[email protected]> wrote:

> I dont think its a good idea to have a dependency on a jar which isnt
> publish and/or available to maven. That makes the project impossible to
> use. Getting the old ODDR client working was a huge hassle and a high
> barrier to entry. Im not saying no to the w3c standard, im just saying no
> to an unpublished dependency.
>
> Sure, our jars havent been published yet, but once we release, thats the
> plan... :)
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Werner Keil <[email protected]>
> To: "[email protected]" <
> [email protected]>; Reza <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission?
>
>
> They are, but they didn't give a sh* about Maven. It is avvailable under
> http://www.w3.org/TR/DDR-Simple-API/DDRSimpleAPI.jar
> That is the way W3C did it.
>
> I just completely eliminated the mirror, and if we still needed to use the
> JAR, either a Maven build could access this GitHub repo
> https://github.com/fnk/w3c-ddr
>
> Or we followed one of these (the 1st answer was used by OpenDDR so far, the
> 2nd seems more practical if we don't get it into a "real" Maven form)
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4491199/build-maven-project-with-propriatery-libraries-included/4491343#4491343
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Reza <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > ahh, ok, makes sense. So to implement the standard, the w3c artifact
> needs
> > to be published.
> >
> > Well, thats a pretty big blocker...
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Werner Keil <[email protected]>
> > To: "[email protected]" <
> > [email protected]>; Reza <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission?
> >
> >
> > It's a standard or "recommendation" just like HTML5 or CSS vX, so
> > "rewriting it" would not be possible unless we declare it as "DeviceMap
> > API" and put interfaces (instead of the current concrete classes, at
> least
> > it would make the API more abstract and possibly attractive to other
> users)
> > along the lines of the current Device, Pattern, Loader, etc. in a more
> > prominent place.
> >
> > Some projects separate the API into a separate JAR or module, others,
> most
> > prominently Spring Framework usually don't bother doing so, thus you
> > usually find the "API" and "impl" packages in the same JAR.
> >
> > I briefly tried to reach out to one or two people around the "Wurfl
> > Converter" at "W3C" which took exactly an old, still Open Source version
> of
> > that WURFL.xml, (AFAIK the project also contains a copy of it there) and
> > turns it into a W3C Compliant structure (similar to OpenDDR or DeviceMap
> > now naturally) but nobody ever replied. Most people probably don't even
> > work there any more, so nobody at W3C or the particular WG will do that
> I'm
> > afraid.
> >
> > For JAXB, DOM or CSS you'll find a few proper Maven artifacts by W3C,
> > whether they were put there by a W3C project or just a desparate
> downstream
> > user, I can't tell.
> >
> > So unless we want to go down the path of "reinventing that standard/spec"
> > inside DeviceMap, we have to find a way to get it there. Sonatype has a
> > Deployment guide:
> > http://central.sonatype.org/pages/ossrh-guide.html#deployment Maybe it's
> > worth a try to raise an issue there, WDYT?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Reza <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well, at Bertrand mentioned, that w3c api is not owned by this project.
> > So
> > > publishing that artifact is not a task for this project, rather, its a
> > task
> > > for anyone who can publish on behalf of w3c.
> > >
> > > Getting support for the Simple DDR standard is a task for this
> project. I
> > > havent looked at it too deeply, but I believe it might be possible
> > without
> > > the w3c jar being published, meaning, we write the API from scratch. I
> > > could be wrong... so dont hold me to this.
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: Werner Keil <[email protected]>
> > > To: "[email protected]" <
> > > [email protected]>; Reza <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 1:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There seems reason for both, and one (Mavenize it) would be
> > > precondition/blocker for the other
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Reza <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I changed it to unassigned. I thought this task was exposing a w3c ddr
> > api
> > > in the client. Its still a task, I will make a new jira ticket to track
> > it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >________________________________
> > > > From: Werner Keil <[email protected]>
> > > >To: "[email protected]" <
> > > [email protected]>
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 1:38 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Btw. it's also assigned to Reza at the moment, not sure, if he,
> Bertrand
> > > or someone else is the right person to find a place for the artifact,
> but
> > > there's already a JIRA ticket for this:
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DMAP-38
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> > > Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Java Godfather
> > > >Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | #EclipseUOMo |
> #Java_Social |
> > > #DevOps
> > > >Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >* Developer Week: 14/15 Jul 2014, Nürnberg, Germany. Werner Keil, JCP
> EC
> > > Member, JSR 363 Spec Lead, DevOps Guy will present "Triple-E' class
> > > Continuous Delivery", "JSR 363 and IoT" (GER)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >* JavaZone 2014: 9-11 Sep 2014, Oslo, Norway. Werner Keil, JCP EC
> > Member,
> > > JSR 363 Spec Lead will present "JSR 363 - The Answer to Life Science
> and
> > > the Internet of Everything"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >* JavaOne 2014: Sep 28-Oct 2 2014, San Francisco, USA, Werner Keil,
> JCP
> > > EC Member, JSR 354 EG Member will host "Java and Digital Currencies,
> > Friend
> > > or FOE"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >* JMaghreb 3.0: 4-6 Nov 2014, Casablanca, Morocco. Werner Keil, JCP EC
> > > Member, JSR 363 Spec Lead, DevOps Guy will present "Triple-E' class
> > > DevOps", "JSR 363"
> > > >
> > > >* Mobile Developer Conference kompakt: 18 Nov 2014, Hamburg, Germany.
> > > Werner Keil, JCP EC Member, Apache DeviceMap Committer will present
> > "Apache
> > > DeviceMap" (GER)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Werner Keil <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >While there was an outage, the W3C pages related to DDR Simple seem up
> > > again.
> > > >>This page is very interesting:
> > > http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/DDWG/drafts/api/test-report.html
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>It showed, what compatible implementations existed, and at least in
> an
> > > earlier version the most popular and likely commercially successful
> > > (true;-) WURFL competitor DeviceAtlas did or still does implement it,
> > too.
> > > Passani's argument it is not used seems bullshit. If it became outdated
> > and
> > > e.g. DeviceAtlas no longer use those Java APIs, we could also question
> > it.
> > > Otherwise let's find a way to use it with Maven.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Werner
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Werner Keil <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>Weird, hopefully it's only a side-effect of Hurricane Arthur, but all
> > of
> > > W3C.org consistently seems DOWN right now, including the DDR API
> standard
> > > history.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Another reason to not rely on e.g. the JAR the site also did provide
> > > for historical reasons, but it seems better to find a BINARY distro
> than
> > > having to build it from a codebase like the one on GitHub (or
> elsewhere,
> > > not sure if W3C itself still has it, but AFAIK just like other
> standards
> > > like HTML5 you are free to use them without restriction or royalties)
> > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Werner Keil <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>It is simply a clone of this:
> > > >>>>https://github.com/fnk/w3c-ddr
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Essentially we would not need the source form in our SVN but the
> real
> > > key problem is, whether or not a BINARY Maven artifact can be provided
> > in a
> > > proper way?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>So far nobody bothered putting it on MavenCentral. Unless there is
> a
> > > legal reason W3C would  prohibit that, I guess they just didn't see
> Java
> > or
> > > Maven as important.
> > > >>>>So consider it a "mirror" of the Git repo. If the DeviceMap build
> > > system was flexible enough to grab it from his GitHub repo, then we
> could
> > > delete the mirror.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>We must find a way to "Mavenize" the target binary, otherwise there
> > is
> > > no point in using the W3C Simple DDR and we might have to drop the DDR
> > > features once and for all
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Werner
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Hi (Werner mostly as you committed this),
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>The code under [1] is apparently from W3C, did you have permission
> > > >>>>>from whoever owns its copyright to contribute it to this project?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>I don't see any license information, and lots of author tags which
> > > >>>>>might indicate ownership - or not.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>I don't see an urgent need to remove that from our repository, but
> > we
> > > >>>>>should find out whether you were actually allowed to copy it here
> or
> > > >>>>>not.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>-Bertrand
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>[1]
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/devicemap/trunk/contrib/w3c/ddr-simple
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>

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