The version referred to here: http://incubator.apache.org/devicemap/getting-started.html wasn't the latest one btw, the most recent one is the same as the mirror on GitHub and/or the one W3C mentions. Can't say why OpenDDR used an earlier one, the difference is marginal, but the "SimpleDDR" client in our Java branch matches the most recent version now.
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Werner Keil <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, hope we get more thoughts here. > > W3C DDR is published, that's for sure, Maven after all is just a technical > detail. And the URL under which W3C published it won't go away, so we need > to find a a way to properly incorporate it. OR take the WURFL path of > de-facto standard if we prefer to do this for 1.0.[?] > > It's like Chicken and Egg, and nobody at W3C will bother making it > available for Maven, next some project comes and requires it for Gradle, > Ivy or other build systems[?] > > > On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Reza <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I dont think its a good idea to have a dependency on a jar which isnt >> publish and/or available to maven. That makes the project impossible to >> use. Getting the old ODDR client working was a huge hassle and a high >> barrier to entry. Im not saying no to the w3c standard, im just saying no >> to an unpublished dependency. >> >> Sure, our jars havent been published yet, but once we release, thats the >> plan... :) >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Werner Keil <[email protected]> >> To: "[email protected]" < >> [email protected]>; Reza <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission? >> >> >> They are, but they didn't give a sh* about Maven. It is avvailable under >> http://www.w3.org/TR/DDR-Simple-API/DDRSimpleAPI.jar >> That is the way W3C did it. >> >> I just completely eliminated the mirror, and if we still needed to use the >> JAR, either a Maven build could access this GitHub repo >> https://github.com/fnk/w3c-ddr >> >> Or we followed one of these (the 1st answer was used by OpenDDR so far, >> the >> 2nd seems more practical if we don't get it into a "real" Maven form) >> >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4491199/build-maven-project-with-propriatery-libraries-included/4491343#4491343 >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Reza <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > ahh, ok, makes sense. So to implement the standard, the w3c artifact >> needs >> > to be published. >> > >> > Well, thats a pretty big blocker... >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Werner Keil <[email protected]> >> > To: "[email protected]" < >> > [email protected]>; Reza <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:25 PM >> > Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission? >> > >> > >> > It's a standard or "recommendation" just like HTML5 or CSS vX, so >> > "rewriting it" would not be possible unless we declare it as "DeviceMap >> > API" and put interfaces (instead of the current concrete classes, at >> least >> > it would make the API more abstract and possibly attractive to other >> users) >> > along the lines of the current Device, Pattern, Loader, etc. in a more >> > prominent place. >> > >> > Some projects separate the API into a separate JAR or module, others, >> most >> > prominently Spring Framework usually don't bother doing so, thus you >> > usually find the "API" and "impl" packages in the same JAR. >> > >> > I briefly tried to reach out to one or two people around the "Wurfl >> > Converter" at "W3C" which took exactly an old, still Open Source >> version of >> > that WURFL.xml, (AFAIK the project also contains a copy of it there) and >> > turns it into a W3C Compliant structure (similar to OpenDDR or DeviceMap >> > now naturally) but nobody ever replied. Most people probably don't even >> > work there any more, so nobody at W3C or the particular WG will do that >> I'm >> > afraid. >> > >> > For JAXB, DOM or CSS you'll find a few proper Maven artifacts by W3C, >> > whether they were put there by a W3C project or just a desparate >> downstream >> > user, I can't tell. >> > >> > So unless we want to go down the path of "reinventing that >> standard/spec" >> > inside DeviceMap, we have to find a way to get it there. Sonatype has a >> > Deployment guide: >> > http://central.sonatype.org/pages/ossrh-guide.html#deployment Maybe >> it's >> > worth a try to raise an issue there, WDYT? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Reza <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Well, at Bertrand mentioned, that w3c api is not owned by this >> project. >> > So >> > > publishing that artifact is not a task for this project, rather, its a >> > task >> > > for anyone who can publish on behalf of w3c. >> > > >> > > Getting support for the Simple DDR standard is a task for this >> project. I >> > > havent looked at it too deeply, but I believe it might be possible >> > without >> > > the w3c jar being published, meaning, we write the API from scratch. I >> > > could be wrong... so dont hold me to this. >> > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________ >> > > From: Werner Keil <[email protected]> >> > > To: "[email protected]" < >> > > [email protected]>; Reza <[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 1:47 PM >> > > Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > There seems reason for both, and one (Mavenize it) would be >> > > precondition/blocker for the other >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Reza <[email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > I changed it to unassigned. I thought this task was exposing a w3c ddr >> > api >> > > in the client. Its still a task, I will make a new jira ticket to >> track >> > it. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >________________________________ >> > > > From: Werner Keil <[email protected]> >> > > >To: "[email protected]" < >> > > [email protected]> >> > > >Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 1:38 PM >> > > >Subject: Re: Was contrib/w3c/ddr-simple contributed with permission? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >Btw. it's also assigned to Reza at the moment, not sure, if he, >> Bertrand >> > > or someone else is the right person to find a place for the artifact, >> but >> > > there's already a JIRA ticket for this: >> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DMAP-38 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead | >> > > Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Java Godfather >> > > >Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | #EclipseUOMo | >> #Java_Social | >> > > #DevOps >> > > >Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >* Developer Week: 14/15 Jul 2014, Nürnberg, Germany. Werner Keil, >> JCP EC >> > > Member, JSR 363 Spec Lead, DevOps Guy will present "Triple-E' class >> > > Continuous Delivery", "JSR 363 and IoT" (GER) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >* JavaZone 2014: 9-11 Sep 2014, Oslo, Norway. Werner Keil, JCP EC >> > Member, >> > > JSR 363 Spec Lead will present "JSR 363 - The Answer to Life Science >> and >> > > the Internet of Everything" >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >* JavaOne 2014: Sep 28-Oct 2 2014, San Francisco, USA, Werner Keil, >> JCP >> > > EC Member, JSR 354 EG Member will host "Java and Digital Currencies, >> > Friend >> > > or FOE" >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >* JMaghreb 3.0: 4-6 Nov 2014, Casablanca, Morocco. Werner Keil, JCP >> EC >> > > Member, JSR 363 Spec Lead, DevOps Guy will present "Triple-E' class >> > > DevOps", "JSR 363" >> > > > >> > > >* Mobile Developer Conference kompakt: 18 Nov 2014, Hamburg, Germany. >> > > Werner Keil, JCP EC Member, Apache DeviceMap Committer will present >> > "Apache >> > > DeviceMap" (GER) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Werner Keil <[email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > >While there was an outage, the W3C pages related to DDR Simple seem >> up >> > > again. >> > > >>This page is very interesting: >> > > http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/DDWG/drafts/api/test-report.html >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>It showed, what compatible implementations existed, and at least in >> an >> > > earlier version the most popular and likely commercially successful >> > > (true;-) WURFL competitor DeviceAtlas did or still does implement it, >> > too. >> > > Passani's argument it is not used seems bullshit. If it became >> outdated >> > and >> > > e.g. DeviceAtlas no longer use those Java APIs, we could also question >> > it. >> > > Otherwise let's find a way to use it with Maven. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>Werner >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Werner Keil <[email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>Weird, hopefully it's only a side-effect of Hurricane Arthur, but >> all >> > of >> > > W3C.org consistently seems DOWN right now, including the DDR API >> standard >> > > history. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>>Another reason to not rely on e.g. the JAR the site also did >> provide >> > > for historical reasons, but it seems better to find a BINARY distro >> than >> > > having to build it from a codebase like the one on GitHub (or >> elsewhere, >> > > not sure if W3C itself still has it, but AFAIK just like other >> standards >> > > like HTML5 you are free to use them without restriction or royalties) >> > > > >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Werner Keil <[email protected] >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >>> >> > > >>>It is simply a clone of this: >> > > >>>>https://github.com/fnk/w3c-ddr >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>Essentially we would not need the source form in our SVN but the >> real >> > > key problem is, whether or not a BINARY Maven artifact can be provided >> > in a >> > > proper way? >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>So far nobody bothered putting it on MavenCentral. Unless there >> is a >> > > legal reason W3C would prohibit that, I guess they just didn't see >> Java >> > or >> > > Maven as important. >> > > >>>>So consider it a "mirror" of the Git repo. If the DeviceMap build >> > > system was flexible enough to grab it from his GitHub repo, then we >> could >> > > delete the mirror. >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>We must find a way to "Mavenize" the target binary, otherwise >> there >> > is >> > > no point in using the W3C Simple DDR and we might have to drop the DDR >> > > features once and for all >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>Werner >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz < >> > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>Hi (Werner mostly as you committed this), >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>>The code under [1] is apparently from W3C, did you have >> permission >> > > >>>>>from whoever owns its copyright to contribute it to this project? >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>>I don't see any license information, and lots of author tags >> which >> > > >>>>>might indicate ownership - or not. >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>>I don't see an urgent need to remove that from our repository, >> but >> > we >> > > >>>>>should find out whether you were actually allowed to copy it >> here or >> > > >>>>>not. >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>>-Bertrand >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>>[1] >> > > >> > >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/devicemap/trunk/contrib/w3c/ddr-simple >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > >> > >
