On 2 Oct 2014 at 21:11:11, Denis Gervalle
(d...@softec.lu(mailto:d...@softec.lu)) wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Guillaume Lerouge
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > actually one thing we could try is this:
> >
> > - *Keep the "Add" button where it is and use it for page-related
> > actions:*
This is not fully true. It’s NOT about page-related actions at all. It’s about
page **content** actions.
Page-related actions are in the top level menus with “Delete page”, “rename
page”, “move page”. So it makes sense to have “Create child page” in there too.
> > - "Add child page”
How would it look differently than the one at the top since both have the
current page as the default parent?
> > - "Add comment" (as suggested by Denis)
> > - "Add attachment" (as suggested by Denis)
The show links in the More actions menu also allow to add comments/attachments
and so does the extradoc tabs at the bottom of the page. I’m wondering if it’s
not confusing to have so many ways of doing the same thing.
> > - *Add a "Create" button in the top bar, with 2/3 options:*
> > - "Create page" (TBD)
> > - "Create space"
> > - "Create wiki"
> > - In this case, after clicking "Create" the user would be presented with
> > a page / modal box listing existing instances as well as available
> > templates
> >
> > I think this would solve both my issues (having less-frequent actions in
> > the same location as a more-frequent one, not being in the right place on
> > the page) and GuillaumeD's wife issue (the "Add" button is easy to find
> > where it is right now, why move it?).
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
>
> Big +1 for me. I am convince we need "in context" and "out of context"
> operation to be separated.
I’m a bit less convinced than you Denis that have 2 “Add” actions is a good
thing. Don’t you think it could be confusing for the user and I don’t think
it’s very clear when to use one or another. And even more so since the page
that appears when you click them is the same one in both cases…
ATM I still prefer having a single Add/Create button at the top by far
Thanks
-Vincent
> > Guillaume
> > ᐧ
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:48 PM, vinc...@massol.net
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2 Oct 2014 at 13:31:56, Eduard Moraru (enygma2...@gmail.com(mailto:
> > > enygma2...@gmail.com)) wrote:
> > >
> > > > On that note:
> > > > The funny/sad thing to realise is that we are basing all this
> > discussion
> > > on
> > > > the fact that some users did not find the "Add" button *only the first
> > > > time* they tried to do something. The realization is that this is one
> > of
> > > > those things (idioms[1][2]) that you learn once and know how to easily
> > do
> > > > the next 1000x times (like riding a bike).
> > > >
> > > > The real problem appears when you are in those "next 1000x time" and
> > you
> > > > find it cumbersome to use (like riding a bike with no saddle, or with
> > the
> > > > saddle on backwards :) ). So in both cases (top or middle of the page)
> > > once
> > > > you find it once, you will find it again, however in the middle of the
> > > page
> > > > it conflicts too often with the Edit button and other page related
> > > actions,
> > > > that it becomes cumbersome to use.
> > >
> > > Indeed that’s something I had in mind too. If you just ask to add a page
> > > and that’s all then you’re not doing a full test. You’d need to ask the
> > > user to:
> > > - add a page
> > > - delete a page
> > > - move a page
> > > - create a space
> > > - etc
> > >
> > > And then only you can draw some conclusion IMO.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Eduard
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > [1] http://thor.info.uaic.ro/~evalica/hci/L2/
> > > > [2]
> > > https://www.englishforums.com/English/IdiomsVsMetaphors/cqwl/post.htm
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:47 PM, vinc...@massol.net
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2 Oct 2014 at 11:06:00, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> > > > > gdelhum...@xwiki.com(mailto:gdelhum...@xwiki.com)) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have done the "test-on-my-wife" thing :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > She finds it more intuitive to add a page from the current page, so
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > current location, instead of the "black bar that gives the
> > > impression of
> > > > > > not beeing a part of that page" (that she did not manage to find by
> > > > > > herself).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I then explained that the buttons inside the page only concern the
> > > > > actions
> > > > > > that you can do on that page, meanwhile adding a new page should be
> > > put
> > > > > in
> > > > > > an other location. She did not like this logic :)
> > > > >
> > > > > So with this logic we should remove the top bar completely and move
> > all
> > > > > actions inside the page, i.e. have only 1 menu inside the page.
> > > Because if
> > > > > she couldn’t find the Add button there she also wouldn’t be able to
> > > find
> > > > > all wiki-related actions, space-related actions and more importantly
> > > > > **page-related** actions like copy page, rename page or delete page…
> > > > >
> > > > > Also would be fun to ask your wife to try using Confluence and see if
> > > she
> > > > > fails to create a page there too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > -Vincent
> > > > >
> > > > > > Users' logic and developer's logic are not the same. I like the
> > > current
> > > > > > location too, except that we should propose "create page" before
> > > "create
> > > > > > wiki".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I really would like to have some feedback of normal users, with
> > the 2
> > > > > > proposals. We, as developers, are not good at making things that
> > look
> > > > > > simple for other people, so we should not take this decision alone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Guillaume Delhumeau
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