Hi, Vincent, On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Edy, > > Thanks for your input, see below. > > > On 26 Apr 2018, at 11:42, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm sorry, but nothing related to configuration inside pages looks very > > "wiki-like" to me. > > [snip] > > > You should not need a developer > > (possibly the original developer of the project/customizations) in order > to > > make a really basic operation such as an upgrade. Maybe I'm saying > > "sometimes less is more"? :) > > I’m just reacting to this part, hence the snipping :) > > For me approach 1 is both the complex approach by far and completely > unwiki-like. The wiki way is to be able to make easy edits and be able to > rollback, see diffs, etc. That’s natural and fast. That’s why wikis are > great and this is what we do everywhere in XWiki, including configurations > since all configs are stored inside wiki pages (XWikiPreferences, *Config, > etc). And we’re not going to change that now. > You missed something from those snips where I explained the way I saw this and what might cause some confusion: "IMO, the important part to distinguish the fact that the configuration part (for a regular, non-dev) is choosing *which* color theme to use, while the customization (i.e. coding, done by someone that understands CSS/LESS, in this case) part is editing/customizing your own version of a color theme." i.e. Themes are not configuration, but actual code. > It would be the first time we copy something before allowing changing it > and that’s not logical and not consistent. > The whole discussion is about not allowing to edit something, which is a first indeed, but we are moving in that direction, so of course there will be some changes to the way XWiki works. > > In addition we would make a bigger mess since not only users would be > directed to making copies of color themes pages but they would still be > able to make modifications to current color theme pages… > The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that approach 2 is both > the simplest (and I agree that “less is more” :)) and the most logical. > > You mentioned upgrade being a problem but I don’t think this is correct > since approach 2 means that the color theme pages are “demo” pages meaning > that there will never be any upgrade conflict. When we do new XWiki cycle > versions, we will still be able to provide new color themes and since those > are new (like Iceberg this year) users will be able to switch to them > easily (there’s no upgrade issue either here). > Going again through the page types (specifically the "demo" one) and through the options, I agree that, at least of the Color Themes case, approach 2 should do the job. Of course, all of this being possible with the contract that we don't update color themes and we always publish new ones, of which I'm a bit skeptical. So +0.5 for approach 2. Thanks, Eduard > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Thomas Mortagne < > >> [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> So it seems that 2) is currently leading with Ecaterina and Vincent. > >>> > >>> Guillaume I'm not sure if you prefer 2) or 3) (i.e. what do you think > >>> about delete ?). > >>> > >>> > >> > >>> Marius, does your proposal means you are more for 1) but with the > >>> difference that the default color theme would be allowed for edit ? > >>> > >> > >> Yes, but I'm ok with 2) > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Any other point of view input ? > >>> > >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Thomas Mortagne < > >>> [email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected] > > > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> To give my opinion, I’m hesitating about 2 approaches: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Approach 1: “standard" > >>>>>> ================== > >>>>>> > >>>>>> * We should have “Default Color Theme” be a copy from the Iceberg > >>> color > >>>>> theme page. I think I’d prefer the copy to be done at runtime; for > >>> example > >>>>> if the currently defined color theme page doesn’t exist when going to > >>> the > >>>>> L&F > Themes admin page, create it by copying Iceberg. This provides > a > >>> self > >>>>> healing feature if the color theme page has been removed/doesn’t > >>> exist/etc. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> * Predefined color theme pages should be considered “standard” and a > >>>>> warning message displayed if a user wants to edit them. BTW would be > >>> nice > >>>>> to have a feature to have a customized message per “type”. For > example > >>> for > >>>>> color theme pages we would display a message saying that the user > >> should > >>>>> copy the page to customize it instead of editing it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> * The Color Theme UI should also be improved a bit to have a > >>> “Customize” > >>>>> button on color theme pages that would perform a copy to let the user > >>>>> customize a theme. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Approach 2: “demo" > >>>>>> ================ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> * Consider all color themes to be demo content and once the user > >>> starts > >>>>> modifying them don’t merge them anymore > >>>>>> * When we want to provide modified color themes, introduce new theme > >>>>> pages > >>>>>> * Don’t provide a “Default Color Theme” page. Directly set “Iceberg” > >>> to > >>>>> be the default CT. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Analysis > >>>>>> ======= > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Approach 2 is more wiki style and simpler for sure. Users can use > >> the > >>>>> diff feature and the rollback feature if they want to go back to the > >>>>> original versions. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I think I’m leaning more towards 2 ATM. > >>>>> > >>>>> So you think delete is OK too, right ? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> For me delete is ok too. IMO we should provide just a few themes by > >>>> default, and the user should be able to uninstall and install what > >> themes > >>>> he wants (ideally he would be able to preview them live). > >>>> > >>>> I don't like the copying part very much. Users like to have a base to > >>> start > >>>> from, but they also have history as a fallback. > >>>> > >>>> Also we rarely make changes to ColorThemes, especially since they are > >> not > >>>> very complex since they should contain only variables. Still it all > >>> depends > >>>> on how well the Default Theme is tested initially. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Caty > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> -Vincent > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 25 Apr 2018, at 11:35, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Is this a VOTE or a proposal or a brainstorming? I’m asking since > >>>>> nobody has voted yet, not even Thomas (except if we consider that > >>> “prefer” > >>>>> means +1 and “OK” means +0 ;)). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From the answer it seems we might need a new VOTE since several new > >>>>> points have been added to the discussion. I’m not able to VOTE right > >>> now. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>> -Vincent > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2018, at 12:29, Thomas Mortagne < > >>> [email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi xwikiers, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Following new XAR entry type mail here is a question about color > >>>>>>>> themes we provide in standard XWiki (Cerulean, Charcoal, etc.). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 1) Standard stuff, if you want a custom color theme create a new > >> one > >>>>>>>> (would be nice to be able to copy a standard one and propose it > >> when > >>>>>>>> you try to edit a standard one). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 2) Demo content, edit and delete it all you want and upgrade won't > >>>>>>>> touch a customized theme to avoid surprises (background color > >>> changed > >>>>>>>> a bit in the standard version which now collide with your logo) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 3) Same as 2 but delete is bad (same as home page) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> WDYT ? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'm think I prefer 1) but I'm OK with 3) if other think it's more > >>>>>>>> example than standard material. Let's say -0 for 2). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Thomas Mortagne > >>> > >> > >
