On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com> wrote:
> 2018-04-26 14:13 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2...@gmail.com>: > > > Hi, Vincent, > > > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Edy, > > > > > > Thanks for your input, see below. > > > > > > > On 26 Apr 2018, at 11:42, Eduard Moraru <enygma2...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but nothing related to configuration inside pages looks > very > > > > "wiki-like" to me. > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > You should not need a developer > > > > (possibly the original developer of the project/customizations) in > > order > > > to > > > > make a really basic operation such as an upgrade. Maybe I'm saying > > > > "sometimes less is more"? :) > > > > > > I’m just reacting to this part, hence the snipping :) > > > > > > For me approach 1 is both the complex approach by far and completely > > > unwiki-like. The wiki way is to be able to make easy edits and be able > to > > > rollback, see diffs, etc. That’s natural and fast. That’s why wikis are > > > great and this is what we do everywhere in XWiki, including > > configurations > > > since all configs are stored inside wiki pages (XWikiPreferences, > > *Config, > > > etc). And we’re not going to change that now. > > > > > > > You missed something from those snips where I explained the way I saw > this > > and what might cause some confusion: > > > > "IMO, the important part to distinguish the fact that the configuration > > part (for a regular, non-dev) is choosing *which* color theme to use, > while > > the customization (i.e. coding, done by someone that understands > CSS/LESS, > > in this case) part is editing/customizing your own version of a color > > theme." > > > > i.e. Themes are not configuration, but actual code. > > > > That is actually sad. We already have the "Skin" concept as the "complex > stuff people are not supposed to touch". As opposed to this, I have always > seen the "Theme" as the "little stuff you can change easily to change some > color of the big skin". I agree that themes can now contain a bit of "less" > code. But if both Skin and Themes are seens as "complex stuff regular users > should not change (because it's code)", it's very sad for the > user-friendlyness, and it's probably time to make things better. > > Copying a theme when someone wants to edit is indeed breaking the wiki > workflow and it's again something complex. I would prefer a simple button > in the theme to "revert colors to factory default". > > Yeah, you're right. Themes do go almost entirely into a configuration domain rather than a code domain, specifically since they have dedicated UI for each configurable variable. The LESS part is more for advanced stuff that a regular user would normally ignore. So it would more about configuring which "demo" configurations you want to use. Thanks, Eduard > > > > > > > > It would be the first time we copy something before allowing changing > it > > > and that’s not logical and not consistent. > > > > > > > The whole discussion is about not allowing to edit something, which is a > > first indeed, but we are moving in that direction, so of course there > will > > be some changes to the way XWiki works. > > > > > > > > > > In addition we would make a bigger mess since not only users would be > > > directed to making copies of color themes pages but they would still be > > > able to make modifications to current color theme pages… > > > > > > > The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that approach 2 is > both > > > the simplest (and I agree that “less is more” :)) and the most logical. > > > > > > You mentioned upgrade being a problem but I don’t think this is correct > > > since approach 2 means that the color theme pages are “demo” pages > > meaning > > > that there will never be any upgrade conflict. When we do new XWiki > cycle > > > versions, we will still be able to provide new color themes and since > > those > > > are new (like Iceberg this year) users will be able to switch to them > > > easily (there’s no upgrade issue either here). > > > > > > > Going again through the page types (specifically the "demo" one) and > > through the options, I agree that, at least of the Color Themes case, > > approach 2 should do the job. Of course, all of this being possible with > > the contract that we don't update color themes and we always publish new > > ones, of which I'm a bit skeptical. > > > > So +0.5 for approach 2. > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Thomas Mortagne < > > > >> thomas.morta...@xwiki.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> So it seems that 2) is currently leading with Ecaterina and > Vincent. > > > >>> > > > >>> Guillaume I'm not sure if you prefer 2) or 3) (i.e. what do you > think > > > >>> about delete ?). > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> Marius, does your proposal means you are more for 1) but with the > > > >>> difference that the default color theme would be allowed for edit ? > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> Yes, but I'm ok with 2) > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> Any other point of view input ? > > > >>> > > > >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > > >>> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Thomas Mortagne < > > > >>> thomas.morta...@xwiki.com> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Vincent Massol < > > vinc...@massol.net > > > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> To give my opinion, I’m hesitating about 2 approaches: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Approach 1: “standard" > > > >>>>>> ================== > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> * We should have “Default Color Theme” be a copy from the > Iceberg > > > >>> color > > > >>>>> theme page. I think I’d prefer the copy to be done at runtime; > for > > > >>> example > > > >>>>> if the currently defined color theme page doesn’t exist when > going > > to > > > >>> the > > > >>>>> L&F > Themes admin page, create it by copying Iceberg. This > > provides > > > a > > > >>> self > > > >>>>> healing feature if the color theme page has been removed/doesn’t > > > >>> exist/etc. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> * Predefined color theme pages should be considered “standard” > > and a > > > >>>>> warning message displayed if a user wants to edit them. BTW would > > be > > > >>> nice > > > >>>>> to have a feature to have a customized message per “type”. For > > > example > > > >>> for > > > >>>>> color theme pages we would display a message saying that the user > > > >> should > > > >>>>> copy the page to customize it instead of editing it. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> * The Color Theme UI should also be improved a bit to have a > > > >>> “Customize” > > > >>>>> button on color theme pages that would perform a copy to let the > > user > > > >>>>> customize a theme. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Approach 2: “demo" > > > >>>>>> ================ > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> * Consider all color themes to be demo content and once the user > > > >>> starts > > > >>>>> modifying them don’t merge them anymore > > > >>>>>> * When we want to provide modified color themes, introduce new > > theme > > > >>>>> pages > > > >>>>>> * Don’t provide a “Default Color Theme” page. Directly set > > “Iceberg” > > > >>> to > > > >>>>> be the default CT. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Analysis > > > >>>>>> ======= > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Approach 2 is more wiki style and simpler for sure. Users can > use > > > >> the > > > >>>>> diff feature and the rollback feature if they want to go back to > > the > > > >>>>> original versions. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I think I’m leaning more towards 2 ATM. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> So you think delete is OK too, right ? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> For me delete is ok too. IMO we should provide just a few themes > by > > > >>>> default, and the user should be able to uninstall and install what > > > >> themes > > > >>>> he wants (ideally he would be able to preview them live). > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I don't like the copying part very much. Users like to have a base > > to > > > >>> start > > > >>>> from, but they also have history as a fallback. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Also we rarely make changes to ColorThemes, especially since they > > are > > > >> not > > > >>>> very complex since they should contain only variables. Still it > all > > > >>> depends > > > >>>> on how well the Default Theme is tested initially. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Thanks, > > > >>>> Caty > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Thanks > > > >>>>>> -Vincent > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On 25 Apr 2018, at 11:35, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> > > > >> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Is this a VOTE or a proposal or a brainstorming? I’m asking > since > > > >>>>> nobody has voted yet, not even Thomas (except if we consider that > > > >>> “prefer” > > > >>>>> means +1 and “OK” means +0 ;)). > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> From the answer it seems we might need a new VOTE since several > > new > > > >>>>> points have been added to the discussion. I’m not able to VOTE > > right > > > >>> now. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Thanks > > > >>>>>>> -Vincent > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2018, at 12:29, Thomas Mortagne < > > > >>> thomas.morta...@xwiki.com> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Hi xwikiers, > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Following new XAR entry type mail here is a question about > color > > > >>>>>>>> themes we provide in standard XWiki (Cerulean, Charcoal, > etc.). > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> 1) Standard stuff, if you want a custom color theme create a > new > > > >> one > > > >>>>>>>> (would be nice to be able to copy a standard one and propose > it > > > >> when > > > >>>>>>>> you try to edit a standard one). > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> 2) Demo content, edit and delete it all you want and upgrade > > won't > > > >>>>>>>> touch a customized theme to avoid surprises (background color > > > >>> changed > > > >>>>>>>> a bit in the standard version which now collide with your > logo) > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> 3) Same as 2 but delete is bad (same as home page) > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> WDYT ? > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> I'm think I prefer 1) but I'm OK with 3) if other think it's > > more > > > >>>>>>>> example than standard material. Let's say -0 for 2). > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > >>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>>> Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Thomas Mortagne > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com) > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > Committer on the XWiki.org project >
