2018-04-26 14:13 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2...@gmail.com>: > Hi, Vincent, > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> > wrote: > > > Hi Edy, > > > > Thanks for your input, see below. > > > > > On 26 Apr 2018, at 11:42, Eduard Moraru <enygma2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm sorry, but nothing related to configuration inside pages looks very > > > "wiki-like" to me. > > > > [snip] > > > > > You should not need a developer > > > (possibly the original developer of the project/customizations) in > order > > to > > > make a really basic operation such as an upgrade. Maybe I'm saying > > > "sometimes less is more"? :) > > > > I’m just reacting to this part, hence the snipping :) > > > > For me approach 1 is both the complex approach by far and completely > > unwiki-like. The wiki way is to be able to make easy edits and be able to > > rollback, see diffs, etc. That’s natural and fast. That’s why wikis are > > great and this is what we do everywhere in XWiki, including > configurations > > since all configs are stored inside wiki pages (XWikiPreferences, > *Config, > > etc). And we’re not going to change that now. > > > > You missed something from those snips where I explained the way I saw this > and what might cause some confusion: > > "IMO, the important part to distinguish the fact that the configuration > part (for a regular, non-dev) is choosing *which* color theme to use, while > the customization (i.e. coding, done by someone that understands CSS/LESS, > in this case) part is editing/customizing your own version of a color > theme." > > i.e. Themes are not configuration, but actual code. >
That is actually sad. We already have the "Skin" concept as the "complex stuff people are not supposed to touch". As opposed to this, I have always seen the "Theme" as the "little stuff you can change easily to change some color of the big skin". I agree that themes can now contain a bit of "less" code. But if both Skin and Themes are seens as "complex stuff regular users should not change (because it's code)", it's very sad for the user-friendlyness, and it's probably time to make things better. Copying a theme when someone wants to edit is indeed breaking the wiki workflow and it's again something complex. I would prefer a simple button in the theme to "revert colors to factory default". > > > > It would be the first time we copy something before allowing changing it > > and that’s not logical and not consistent. > > > > The whole discussion is about not allowing to edit something, which is a > first indeed, but we are moving in that direction, so of course there will > be some changes to the way XWiki works. > > > > > > In addition we would make a bigger mess since not only users would be > > directed to making copies of color themes pages but they would still be > > able to make modifications to current color theme pages… > > > > The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that approach 2 is both > > the simplest (and I agree that “less is more” :)) and the most logical. > > > > You mentioned upgrade being a problem but I don’t think this is correct > > since approach 2 means that the color theme pages are “demo” pages > meaning > > that there will never be any upgrade conflict. When we do new XWiki cycle > > versions, we will still be able to provide new color themes and since > those > > are new (like Iceberg this year) users will be able to switch to them > > easily (there’s no upgrade issue either here). > > > > Going again through the page types (specifically the "demo" one) and > through the options, I agree that, at least of the Color Themes case, > approach 2 should do the job. Of course, all of this being possible with > the contract that we don't update color themes and we always publish new > ones, of which I'm a bit skeptical. > > So +0.5 for approach 2. > > Thanks, > Eduard > > > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eduard > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Thomas Mortagne < > > >> thomas.morta...@xwiki.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> So it seems that 2) is currently leading with Ecaterina and Vincent. > > >>> > > >>> Guillaume I'm not sure if you prefer 2) or 3) (i.e. what do you think > > >>> about delete ?). > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> Marius, does your proposal means you are more for 1) but with the > > >>> difference that the default color theme would be allowed for edit ? > > >>> > > >> > > >> Yes, but I'm ok with 2) > > >> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Any other point of view input ? > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > >>> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Thomas Mortagne < > > >>> thomas.morta...@xwiki.com> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Vincent Massol < > vinc...@massol.net > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> To give my opinion, I’m hesitating about 2 approaches: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Approach 1: “standard" > > >>>>>> ================== > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * We should have “Default Color Theme” be a copy from the Iceberg > > >>> color > > >>>>> theme page. I think I’d prefer the copy to be done at runtime; for > > >>> example > > >>>>> if the currently defined color theme page doesn’t exist when going > to > > >>> the > > >>>>> L&F > Themes admin page, create it by copying Iceberg. This > provides > > a > > >>> self > > >>>>> healing feature if the color theme page has been removed/doesn’t > > >>> exist/etc. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * Predefined color theme pages should be considered “standard” > and a > > >>>>> warning message displayed if a user wants to edit them. BTW would > be > > >>> nice > > >>>>> to have a feature to have a customized message per “type”. For > > example > > >>> for > > >>>>> color theme pages we would display a message saying that the user > > >> should > > >>>>> copy the page to customize it instead of editing it. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * The Color Theme UI should also be improved a bit to have a > > >>> “Customize” > > >>>>> button on color theme pages that would perform a copy to let the > user > > >>>>> customize a theme. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Approach 2: “demo" > > >>>>>> ================ > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * Consider all color themes to be demo content and once the user > > >>> starts > > >>>>> modifying them don’t merge them anymore > > >>>>>> * When we want to provide modified color themes, introduce new > theme > > >>>>> pages > > >>>>>> * Don’t provide a “Default Color Theme” page. Directly set > “Iceberg” > > >>> to > > >>>>> be the default CT. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Analysis > > >>>>>> ======= > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Approach 2 is more wiki style and simpler for sure. Users can use > > >> the > > >>>>> diff feature and the rollback feature if they want to go back to > the > > >>>>> original versions. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I think I’m leaning more towards 2 ATM. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So you think delete is OK too, right ? > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> For me delete is ok too. IMO we should provide just a few themes by > > >>>> default, and the user should be able to uninstall and install what > > >> themes > > >>>> he wants (ideally he would be able to preview them live). > > >>>> > > >>>> I don't like the copying part very much. Users like to have a base > to > > >>> start > > >>>> from, but they also have history as a fallback. > > >>>> > > >>>> Also we rarely make changes to ColorThemes, especially since they > are > > >> not > > >>>> very complex since they should contain only variables. Still it all > > >>> depends > > >>>> on how well the Default Theme is tested initially. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> Caty > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Thanks > > >>>>>> -Vincent > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On 25 Apr 2018, at 11:35, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> > > >> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Is this a VOTE or a proposal or a brainstorming? I’m asking since > > >>>>> nobody has voted yet, not even Thomas (except if we consider that > > >>> “prefer” > > >>>>> means +1 and “OK” means +0 ;)). > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> From the answer it seems we might need a new VOTE since several > new > > >>>>> points have been added to the discussion. I’m not able to VOTE > right > > >>> now. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks > > >>>>>>> -Vincent > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2018, at 12:29, Thomas Mortagne < > > >>> thomas.morta...@xwiki.com> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hi xwikiers, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Following new XAR entry type mail here is a question about color > > >>>>>>>> themes we provide in standard XWiki (Cerulean, Charcoal, etc.). > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> 1) Standard stuff, if you want a custom color theme create a new > > >> one > > >>>>>>>> (would be nice to be able to copy a standard one and propose it > > >> when > > >>>>>>>> you try to edit a standard one). > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> 2) Demo content, edit and delete it all you want and upgrade > won't > > >>>>>>>> touch a customized theme to avoid surprises (background color > > >>> changed > > >>>>>>>> a bit in the standard version which now collide with your logo) > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> 3) Same as 2 but delete is bad (same as home page) > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> WDYT ? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I'm think I prefer 1) but I'm OK with 3) if other think it's > more > > >>>>>>>> example than standard material. Let's say -0 for 2). > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Thomas Mortagne > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > > >>>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Thomas Mortagne > > >>> > > >> > > > > > -- Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
