You are misunderstanding my point. I have stock and deep connections at microsoft. I don't want to mess anything up for anyone. If you were making your own windows on windows, I don't want to see the code, remark that it should work this way .... Low probability of anything ever happening, but risk nonetheless. For both sides.
When I left my employer and talked to a lawyer, he said that the ndas lasts as long as the revenue, and beware, loose lips sink ships. My family benefits from that revenue. btw - I also wait for the walk signal, I've never been oppressed, and have no problem with the nda. I was well paid, put the kids through school, and paid all their medical expenses. On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 8:45 PM Gregory Casamento <greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: > How would using any operating system you like let them down? Or even > using whatever api? I imagine it has something to do with GNUstep having > some connection with Apple, right? > > Look at it this way. GNUstep is trying to free the masses from the > tyranny of our Jobsian oppressors. Does that help? ;) > > Gregory Casamento > GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings > > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 10:18 bruce <darkoverlordofd...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> No, they are fine with Linux . It's more about not letting them down. >> Family comes first >> >> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023, 6:45 AM Gregory Casamento <greg.casame...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Bruce, >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 9:34 AM bruce <darkoverlordofd...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'd always assumed that gnustep used its own gui across systems. But if >>>> you're using native controls on windows, my 'nda anxiety' is low. Nothing I >>>> say about linux gui affects windows. >>>> >>> >>> Assumption is the true enemy of understanding. :) Don't ask me where I >>> got that quote from, I don't remember. You can either use >>> GNUstep's own GUI or WinUXTheme (which uses native widgets) on Windows. >>> The theme uses WinUXTheme.dll on Windows to interface with the native >>> theming framework. >>> >>> You may think I'm overly paranoid about it. I don't work there anymore, >>>> and I don't use windows anymore, but friends and family still work there, >>>> so microsoft *is* family. I have to look them in the eye here in a few >>>> days. >>>> >>> >>> And they would have a problem with you exploring other things within >>> your chosen profession? Windows does not comprise the entire computing >>> ecosystem. It may be so on the common user's desktop, but not in the >>> industry as a whole. Linux rules the server space in spite of what >>> Microsoft might want you to believe. >>> >>> Speaking of which, tomorrow is Yule. After the new year I'll make a >>>> clean repro and file a bug in github. >>>> >>> >>> Sweet, I am looking forward to that. Also... just so you know, myself >>> and Riccardo tried using XFCE with GNUstep and found a couple of >>> interesting issues, but were not able to reproduce the artifacts you saw. >>> Sometime between now and the end of the year I am going to give helloSystem >>> a shot and see if I can make any sense of what you saw on there and if so, >>> maybe we can address some of the issues you're experiencing. >>> >>> Yours, GC >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 5:40 PM Gregory Casamento < >>>> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bruce, >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM bruce <darkoverlordofd...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Riccardo, I can agree with everything you say. I’ve looked at >>>>>> pictures of gnustep running on mac and windows, and it looks sleek and >>>>>> modern, and native. >>>>>> >>>>>> My experience on unix like does not track with that. It looks >>>>>> brutalistic. Not native - it never fits in the desktop. What I hear from >>>>>> most people that have tried it is “the 90’s are calling, they want their >>>>>> desktop back”. I see a big disconnect between the way gnustep looks on >>>>>> mac/windows, and the way it looks on linux/freebsd. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This is, unfortunately, true. GNUstep is using native widgets on >>>>> Windows, so it is very likely to look better on that platform. I, >>>>> personally, don't mind the 90's look, but then again I have a NeXTstation >>>>> to my left, so maybe I am not one to provide an unbiased opinion. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, these are all aesthetic value judgements. But aesthetics matter - >>>>>> ask any mac user. I can see if you’re using a business app, ok. But for >>>>>> other users, it is often a non-starter. >>>>>> >>>>>> My experience has been: >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow this is cool >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow this has got a lot of gui glitches >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow this looks old >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow this is hard to use >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Install something else >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But I like the language. I’ve been coding c for 40 years, and objc is >>>>>> awesome. I want to code the version with features like arc. Fortunately, >>>>>> the freebsd repo has that version. But the linux repos don’t. That >>>>>> complicates targeting any app. And I want people to use my app. But >>>>>> computer users see these gui issues, and say the app is buggy. I say it’s >>>>>> not my app, it’s the way it presents on your os. So they use another app. >>>>>> So much for platform agnostic. So much for marketability. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> GNUstep is platform agnostic from the sense that it is flexible enough >>>>> to be made to blend in should the developer wish to make that happen. The >>>>> community can't take all of the responsibility for making YOUR app fit in >>>>> everywhere. Also, it is difficult when we are only a few people working >>>>> on >>>>> a large project such as this. The point is... help us, I know you have >>>>> told me privately why you feel as though you can't contribute directly, >>>>> but >>>>> writing bug reports or even feature requests on github is something you >>>>> CAN >>>>> do. >>>>> >>>>> You can help us get there by simply reporting any issues you're seeing >>>>> in the places I have asked you to do so. >>>>> >>>>> GC >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 3:00 PM Riccardo Mottola < >>>>>> riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> bruce wrote: >>>>>>> > I've tried using libobjc2 with the other runtimes from the linux >>>>>>> repo. I >>>>>>> > couldn't get it to work, but it sounds like other people have under >>>>>>> > certain circumstances. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Building libobjc2 can be from easy, "just works" to a nightmare, >>>>>>> depending on a platform. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, of course, is if it comes ready for your OS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Hm, I'll give that a try,. >>>>>>> > But to build a product, I want to know that my users can install it >>>>>>> > without all the monkey business. Otherwise it becomes a support >>>>>>> nightmare. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> GCC almost always "just works" if the operating system provides it. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> you don't need Obj-C2 features for your app, it is usually a very >>>>>>> easy >>>>>>> path and that's why I love it. Except FreeBSD, where you mention >>>>>>> working. THhere the situation is complicated, because GCC provided >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> its obj-c runtime removed, supposing you to use libobjc2, which won't >>>>>>> work. SO I abandoned that path, but compiled libobjc2 from sources. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Riccardo >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Bruce Davidson >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory Casamento >>>>> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant >>>>> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com >>>>> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron >>>>> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings >>>>> >>>>> [image: Mailtrack] >>>>> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> >>>>> Sender >>>>> notified by >>>>> Mailtrack >>>>> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> >>>>> 12/19/23, >>>>> 12:35:33 PM >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Bruce Davidson >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory Casamento >>> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant >>> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com >>> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron >>> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings >>> >> -- Bruce Davidson
