I'm sorry if I'm re-opening a closed discussion. Seeing an alert in my inbox and reading a moment ago an article in IEEE Spectrum related to this.discussion, I felt the excerpt below supporting the submissions of some of us will be of interest to many of us. The article's URL is https://spectrum.ieee.org/vibe-coding?utm_source=techalert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=techalert-04-17-25&utm_content=httpsspectrumieeeorgvibecoding&mkt_tok=NzU2LUdQSC04OTkAAAGZ4fQfL5eU0_dV4g6XIp7PH1leEBw6FniKssx9OyZsugvVgK-nEPM0D-_5tibsEoXPonsDZAyyYSSKAD-fA8ptWugHBXZwHWHYVsJTn4L4SlQwY24 in case someone wants a full read. The Limits of Vibes
Naik and Touleyrou have used AI to iterate on software more quickly and easily than before. But are they really vibe coding? Taher Vohra <https://www.linkedin.com/in/tahervohra/>, a software engineer with 25 years of experience in software engineering, contends that they’re not. “I took the vibe-coding definition by heart, that I will not look at code,” he says. And, sticking to the literal interpretation of vibe coding, he quickly points out the idea’s shortcomings <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-7308952709074669568-0LGy?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAABMNpk4Bj-Zsfy8_YIx83lZlA2NCxWo4GGc>. “As I went deeper, I found that specifying what I want the AI to do is turning out to be a harder problem than doing it myself.” That’s not to say Vohra is against using AI for programming, however. On the contrary, he uses multiple AI assistants, such as Cursor, to provide recommendations as he works. Still, he stresses that developers programming production-ready code need to keep their eyes on the code to ensure they have a proper understanding of how it functions and can identify subtle problems that an AI assistant may miss. While Vohra’s take on vibe coding is more critical than Naik and Touleyrou’s perspective, they’re not entirely in disagreement. They all agree on a particular point: Vibe coding can help engineers gain skills in programming languages and tech stacks they don’t yet understand. “My advice to junior engineers is, don’t just think of vibe coding a speed improvement for a skill you already have. Think of it as an accelerator for gaining new skills,” says Vohra. “If you’re a front-end engineer and want to become a full-stack engineer, it’s an excellent way to become a full-stack engineer in a few months, as opposed to two years.” On Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 2:19 PM Maass, Brian A via discuss < [email protected]> wrote: > With a cake mix, you can look at the box and see a list of ingredients. > Someone else has done the work of creating the recipe and making sure the > box contains what it says. > > > > Using this metaphor, AI is like trying to bake a cake with a cake mix that > has no ingredient list, and 1/3 of the cake mix boxes have 1 kg of salt > instead of sugar and ¼ of the cake mix boxes have laundry detergent instead > of flour. > > > > Sure, a baker would smell or taste the mix and know there was a problem. > But someone who has never ate a cake before doesn’t know what the > unfinished product smells or tastes like. > > > > I believe there is a need for courses in using Gen AI correctly (which > includes not using it when it isn’t the right choice), but it doesn’t fit > in the foundational courses that make up the Carpentries. We are starting > with *pwd*, *cd* and *ls -l*. There are no AI shortcuts for those. > > > > > > *Brian Maass, MLIS* > > Assistant Professor > > Digital Technologies Librarian > > McGoogan Health Sciences Library > > > > *University of Nebraska Medical Center* > 986705 Nebraska Medical Center | Omaha, NE 68198-6705 > > > > *From:* Bea Alex <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 29, 2025 2:57 PM > *To:* discuss <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [cp-discuss] Feedback Request: Lesson Updates on > Generative AI > > ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd > > Dear Toby and all, > > > > I’ve been following this discussion over the last few days and would like > to pick up on the idea of using genAI safely and responsibly for learning > how to code. > > > > I’m teaching text mining for social science and literary studies, starting > from scratch with an introduction to Python, and we are getting asked by > students whether they can use AI for their assignments, having resisted so > far. > > > > I feel that we can’t stick our heads in the sand about this anymore though > and pretend students won’t use it. So I agree that the best thing we can > do as educators is teach students about how to use this tech safely and > responsibly… while of course also making it clear to students that learning > to code is like learning to cook but letting AI do it all for you is like > using a ready cake mix that you just need to add water to and stick in the > oven (a metaphor borrowed from my dear co-teacher Pawel Orzechowski). I > think it is slightly more fitting than the recipe kit (suggested by someone > else in the thread) where you at least still need to do a lot of the work > yourself and some learning will take place. Saying that, having tried out > prompting ChatGPT for some code myself, it does provide an explanation for > what steps were taken or how it fixed a bit of code … even if it’s not > always accurate in the solution it provides. > > > > So what does safe and responsible use of genAI actually mean in practice > to people in this group? > > > > I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts on this. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Bea > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dr. Beatrice Alex > > Senior Lecturer and Chancellor’s Fellow > > University of Edinburgh > > Edinburgh Futures Institute | School of Literatures, Languages and Cultures > > Head of the Edinburgh Language Technology Group > > Co-lead of the Edinburgh Clinical NLP Group > > > > On 16 Mar 2025, at 22:20, Paul Harrison via discuss < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > *This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.* > > You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the > email is genuine and the content is safe. > > Hi Toby, > > I'm following this ongoing discussion with interest. Great to see this > being added to Carpentries material. > > We recommend that you avoid getting help from generative AI while you > learn to code > > > > I was a bit surprised by this negative conclusion. My feeling would be > that it isn't reasonable to expect people not to use these tools while > learning, and therefore they need to know how to use them safely. And they > do seem quite good at explaining code or suggesting different approaches. > > > > Here's a slide I used in a recent workshop, although I'm far from 100% > happy with it. > > https://monashdatafluency.github.io/r-progtidy/slides/introduction.html#11 > [monashdatafluency.github.io] > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/monashdatafluency.github.io/r-progtidy/slides/introduction.html*11__;Iw!!JkUDQA!Lfnwcba6KVaocPip620Pr8zwE2zlw-0x542nXaSpkWRfrSE6HK1omzwTw12LJ7NiAcqprA5So-izhgx6wQ$> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, > with registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th’ ann an > Oilthigh Dhùn Èideann, clàraichte an Alba, àireamh clàraidh SC005336. > > The information in this e-mail may be privileged and confidential, > intended only for the use of the addressee(s) above. Any unauthorized use > or disclosure of this information is prohibited. 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