On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Edward D'Azzo-Caisser wrote:
Josh Swift wrote:
To pick one pretty close to home,
what about software developers? I honestly have no idea. Maybe you can't
get hired as a code monkey any more without a Software Engineering
License, although I sort of doubt it
Software Engineers/Programmers in general have the ACM and an expectation
of a college degree focused on what they do. Most colleges pushing out
software engineers have a formal internship program/industry contacts that
help get their students real world experience. And ACM has a lot of
professional resources to help aspiring developers.
you must be in different areas than I am. I don't see anything like ACM
membership being expected of the programmers. I would lay very good odds that
most of them wouldn't recognize what ACM stood for.
In some businesses, having a degree in computer science may be needed to get
your foot in the door, but I'm still seeing a lot of self-taught programmers
getting work.
The hard question is how a business is supposed to believe that you know what
you're doing.
A degree is one way of doing that (although from what I saw when I was going
through school, not a very good one)
The work you have done on Open Source projects is another way that I'm hearing
some companies are looking at.
Recommendations from current employees tend to carry far more weight then either
of these.
David Lang
Neither of these things are licenses, but they offer tangible avenues of
professional support. I can't see new sysadmins without college degrees
succeeding in the industry 5 or 10+ years from now without some sort of
professional body certifying their legitimacy and helping them get job
placement.
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Josh Smift <[email protected]> wrote:
WD> There were some folks there who voiced concerns about things such as
WD> licensure, regulation, and the artificial limiting of who could
WD> practice as negative outcomes of professionalization.
I'm definitely there, but I have this concern.
DB> They do it for electricians, lawyers, doctors, plumbers, massage
DB> therapists, interior designers... We are not special little
DB> snowflakes. They'll turn their all-powerful Eye of Sauron our
DB> direction sooner or later.
There isn't one globally evil organization that does this for all of those
groups, though. To the contrary, my impression is that a lot of those
groups do it themselves; or they do it by lobbying the government to do it
for them. There wasn't some kind of interior design crisis that led to
licensing and regulation of the interior design industry; interior
designers (and others in similar fields where this has happened) wanted
this, with the particular goal of making it harder for newcomers to enter
the field (to artificially limit supply, and drive up prices).
I don't think we should do that.
As to the "special snowflake" thing, there are a lot of occupations that
aren't licensed or regulated at all. To pick one pretty close to home,
what about software developers? I honestly have no idea. Maybe you can't
get hired as a code monkey any more without a Software Engineering
License, although I sort of doubt it. Maybe someone is talking about
creating such a thing, but again I sort of doubt it. Anyone know?
I think "providing a better path for the instruction and guidance of
sysadmins" is a fine goal, but seems more like education (and maybe
certification) than like licensing and regulation. And if you want to call
the former thing "professionalization", I don't have a problem with that;
but it's different from "we want it to be illegal to say that you're a
sysadmin unless you're licensed by their state's Society Of System
Administrators". (Which is what the interior designers do. Or try, they're
starting to lose court battles over this.)
-Josh ([email protected])
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