Rhys, In some ways I agree with you and you may have a very good point about why LOPSA isn't attracting new members.
I think you entirely miss the point of LOPSA membership. (A predictable statement from a LOPSA member.) Yes, many things are being automated and there must be people designing the automation for those systems. There will always be those who are content to be "operators", people who read instruction books and follow checklists. And there are "engineers" who design systems for operators to operate. The engineer to operator ratios is necessarily small. Is LOPSA an organization for operators or engineers? On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Rhys Rhaven <[email protected]> wrote: > This is the best place to respond to this, with a guy talking about > Medieval guilds. I'm a rather young technical person. I've gone from > helpdesk monkey to sysadmin to developer. You won't like what I have to > say, you may not agree with it, but someone should say it. > > *I find no value in LOPSA because the organization is a bunch of dinosaurs* > *who > haven't realized the meteorite already hit. * > > Beyond the cheap shots I could make about *That Guy* with a mail client > too old to properly write the In-Reply-To: header who breaks this > threading, and all the people who reply from the bottom because THATS THE > RIGHT WAY, I'm sure there is a ton of technical expertise in LOPSA. Demand > for that expertise isn't going to magically disappear. We still have people > programming in COBOL ffs. > > But the point is that hardware and largely operations can and are being > automated, and its making a lot of services traditionally rendered by > SysAdmins commodities. If you're not a developer, if you aren't moving to > work on APIs, distributed systems, algorithmically optimized networks, you > aren't helping. A lot of SysAdmins I know feel they are highly skilled > plumbers, and that they do good "work." They come in, they bang on some > pipes, redirect some flows, teach some people about copper vs pvc, then go > home to their wife and kids, a days work accomplished. > > I have no wish to do a days work, I'd much prefer to spend all of my time > building systems that outpace humans. 100% of the time. Finish the task, > then move on to a new task, integrate them into generational "factories" > for production. And just as Industrial and Process Engineering became > formal schools and paths of education after their genesis in the Industrial > Revolution, so will Systems Engineer become formalized after the > Information Revolution. > > LOPSA isn't getting people (and I say this partially as a poll of many of > the professionals around me) because largely they haven't realized this. > LOPSA is an intermediate step to what the likes of Heroku, Amazon and > Google are only the beginning of. The field of SysAdmins is going to be > split to those who can step up to being a full Software Engineer or step > down to being the digital equivalent of a farm hand. > > If you're under 30 pay attention to this. > > On 7/31/14, 4:30 PM, Stephan Fabel wrote: > > On 07/31/2014 06:45 AM, Denise Adams wrote: > > What I mean to tell you is that just having a national group that I > can ask questions to, listen in on relevant discussions to my chosen > career, and have a chance at joining Mentor-ships and extra training > is PRICELESS! And I would have never thought about Systems > Administration unless I had asked about what LOPSA was. > > In the medieval ages in Europe, trade was learned as apprentice, until > you 'graduated' as a fellow; you then went out and learned what there is > to know, until you became a master in the craft, settled, and were > therefore eligible to take on apprentices on your own. > > In this model, if you are a system administrator out 'in the wild', and > you're not part of a professional organization (a 'guild' in the above > metaphor...deja vu?), you are not only missing out, you are actively > hurting yourself; you can only grow so far with information, pretty soon > you need knowledge, wisdom and experience, and that is exactly where > this exchange of stories comes in that LOPSA can (and does!) provide. > > Now, in Europe, they basically dealt away with this entire 'guild' > business, and converted their educational path to a more structured > system involving degrees, certifications and, to much chagrin, 'credits'. > > But I think there's a lesson here, and it's not that SAs need to follow > the same rules as the trades of the medieval ages. I believe that our > 'craft' is much more multifaceted than any other job on the planet. It > requires the combination of so many skills it is impossible (those > involved at the various education workshops, or SESA '13 know!) to > firmly categorize it. > > LOPSA could therefore be seen as the heuristic approach to system > administration education. > > *Because* it is not structured, *because* there is no firm, straight > line, statement of objectives/goals/etc. beyond the most basic > expression of supporting the profession, LOPSA actually provides, at a > 'meta' level, exactly the kind of environment for the > 'trade'/'profession' aspect of system administration to be reflected in. > > (Of course, to get past a certain point, you almost certainly want to go > to school and be a little bit more concrete about what it is that you'd > like to excel in, but that's another story.) > > I like LOPSA the way it is. People like Denise get out of it what they > want, old-timers get to enjoy time with new-comers, 'war stories' are > being told, everyone gets something out of it. Don't expect LOPSA more > to be than in reasonably can provide. > > My $0.02... > > -Stephan > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing > [email protected]https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ > > -- Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard. --Atom Powers--
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