Thank you Adam. I believe listening and talking directly is even more
important in the case of events such as FOSS4G-Asia where part of the
culture is showing respect for each other. It takes much more of a
boots-on-the-ground approach, to talk directly and plan in those cases.
Looking forward to continuing this discussion in person in Dar.
-jeff
On 2018-08-13 9:38 AM, adam steer wrote:
Hi all
I appreciate this topic arising. I appreciate the efforts of the FOSS4G
Dar committee; and the reasons for their decisions. I also appreciate
that the FOSS4G Asia LOC have a different operating environment and look
forward to hearing about their drivers. And I appreciate discussion
about various factors affecting diversity and audiences. From FOSS4G
Oceania experience it’s not an easy discussion to get right - I hope we
all make the best effort we can.
I also want to avoid papering over a substantially disheartening part of
this particular e-mail conversation.
Earlier in this discussion thread a research paper was rolled out as
evidence that women choose to do STEM less; with the argument following
that aiming for levels of attendance and speakership at FOSS4G
conferences which represent the population is over-reach; and then a few
people jumping on the sciencing wagon.
So I read the paper. …and I'm puzzled that in 2018, such a work would be
latched onto and held up as truth without question. I would certainly
not try to use it as a platform to base a solid argument on.
What was more disappointing is that this work was repeatedly held up as
canon and defended, as a counter to Maria’s patient attempts to inject
some living experience into discussion about a topic on which she has
invested vast time and energy (and whose initial assessment of the work
was actually completely correct)!
A great first step to increase diversity and inclusion would be to avoid
this type of top down lecturing and engage with experience - and then
listen. To stories like Vicky’s. To the experience of Maria and Maria;
to the committee from FOSS4G Asia who have made choices for reasons we
don’t know; and from FOSS4G in Dar, who made choices for very clear
reasons because they were able to; and aimed to have a specific impact
(which I hope, has worked).
Back to lurking now..
Adam
--
Dr. Adam Steer
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer
<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer>
http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer <http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer>
http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236 <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236>
+61 427 091 712
skype: adam.d.steer
tweet: @adamdsteer
On 13 August 2018 at 21:21, Jeff McKenna <jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com
<mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
Thank you for sharing these personal stories Vicky.
There are so many different cultural factors at our FOSS4G events
around the world.
How can we make sure that FOSS4G events are both diverse and inclusive?
I think the first step is always to try contacting the FOSS4G local
committee directly. And if you are concerned of a FOSS4G event but
don't know who to contact, just send me a quick email and I'll
forward you the direct contact. In the case of FOSS4G-Asia, I would
forward you to Nimalika from OSGeo-Sri Lanka, who has been so kind
to listen and take the advice back to her local organizing
committee, where they can discuss and make the necessary changes.
I also feel that old-school talking directly is still very
important, and look forward to speaking directly of these issues
with leaders Malena, María and others in Dar es Salaam. This is why
I hop on a plane for a 40 hour trip, to work together on these
issues so we can all continue to create great FOSS4G events of all
sizes.
-jeff
On 2018-08-13 12:57 AM, Vicky Vergara wrote:
Hi all
I went to the last FOSS4G Asia in Hyderabad, India, within IIIT
university premises.
There I met wonderful students.
I was actually impressed with a particular female student, very
bright, and with lots of ideas to tell.
I invited her to eat out.
She could not go out of the university, because her father had
forbidden her to go out of the University premises.
I asked, where is your father?
She told me he lived about 300km to the north, and that when she
needed to go out, he would drive to take her to where she needed
to go.
Culture: not obey the (family/religion/legal) rules is not an
option.
She follows the rules, she is obedient.
What do you expect for woman who live that kind of culture, that
we don't understand, not even a 1%?
If woman like her, get invited to be a keynote speaker, what is
the probability for her to go?
Can you fight a culture that is completely different to
occidental cultures?
Can you fight that culture, sitting in front of your computer,
in England, USA, Mexico?
What would you tell her if you had that conversation?
In my particular case, I told her:
I am sure my father has the same concerns as your father, that
is why he came with me.
And we ate in the University.
I invited my father, I paid his airplane ticket, hotel, food,
souvenir, etc.
The reason that I invited him is: I wanted to fit in the culture
as much as possible.
When passing through customs, he was called, and he had to do
the talking.
When going shopping or eating, the cashier first interaction was
directed to him.
I can't fight a culture, I have to blend in.
But I am glad that, this student's father is letting her study.
And maybe, in the future, she will have daughters that will go
to the University and they will be able to go out of the
University premises to eat.
And she will have grand-daughters that will can go out of the
country (without a chaperon) and be speakers.
Regards
Vicky
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies
<b...@transient.nz <mailto:b...@transient.nz>
<mailto:b...@transient.nz <mailto:b...@transient.nz>>> wrote:
On 12/08/18 21:14, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is
based on facts.
This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply
causation"
fallacy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation>>
Yes, but lack of correlation refutes causation. That is
their point:
gender equality does *not* cause equality of STEM gender
outcomes.
Science requires humility. There is no greater experience
in science
than refuting your own hypothesis because it means that you
might
have discovered something non-obvious. The obvious
hypothesis in
this study was that equality of STEM gender outcomes would
improve
with gender equality. Their surprising discovery is the
opposite.
While there is much conjecture as to the cause, the core
finding is
remarkable, good science, and worthy of publication (in my
uninformed opinion as a layman).
Kind regards,
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