OK,
I want to enter the discussion here. I feel there should be two rates. Full and Reduced (50%). Everyone by default pays Full. However, the board will listen to individual cases and grant either a 6 month or 12 month Reduced Rate for that person. I think this would be more fair and empower the board to make decisions on a case-by-case basis. A person who is a student, full or part time and/or is under employed and/or other mitigating circumstances has an opportunity to plead their individual case to the board for a Reduced Rate. Ian ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Roswyne <[email protected]> Sent: May 8, 2014 12:25 To: Skull Space Discussion List Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] contribute your time If we're questioning what qualifies someone as a student to determine membership fees, surely it's even more important to validate current membership status before discounting class fees. It is important that we not only treat each other fairly, but that we also do so visibly and publicly. While I am not concerned about any current member defrauding us in such a way, by definition, only non-members could do so intentionally. However, a member in poor standing (arrears) would also presumably be ineligible, and could claim a discount either accidentally or intentionally. On May 8, 2014 10:45 AM, "Ron Bowes" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: That's not a bylaw, it's a policy. That's an important legal distinction. If it's a concern (which it isn't), we can rig up a place for people to scan their keyfobs to verify membership. But that's silly. For a group like ours, honour system is fine. On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Different pricing for SkSp members would almost have to be on the honour system, since no list of members is permitted, according to our bylaws. Although I suppose you could test if someone's fob is active to verify their membership if they indicate they are a member. On May 8, 2014 10:17 AM, "Ron Bowes" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Rylaan - we talked about doing that in the past (free/cheap for members, not for non-members), and I'm 100% in favour. It just requires a little more effort on the part of the organizer to figure out who's who(m) and to collect money. Since our default stance is 'lazy', nobody's tried it :) On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Rylaan Gimby <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I wanted to open it up all classes to the general public. Members get in free (or a drastically reduced rate depending on the class), and non-members pay. It shows off a membership benefit to non members, and the fee can go towards and teaching materials / teachers (if we had to bring in a non member teacher for something specific or for certification) that need to be paid for, and the rest of the money to be donated to skullspace. On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Also, if the group is charging attendees a fee, I would more strongly suggest a donation be made to SkSp. :) On May 7, 2014 8:35 PM, "Ron Bowes" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Like Alex said, if a member is present, it's free. If nobody is a sksp member and they want to use the space, it's still free, provided it fits with our goals (ie, no cross burning) but they need a member to babysit them. It's usually easy to find a volunteer. The more non-members who show up, the more we encourage a group to donate to us, or have an option entrance fee. But we don't enforce it. On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Alex Weber <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Free, as in money? We've never mandated any cost to use SkullSpace's facilities. As long as a member is present, it's free. Period. On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 8:27 PM, Ric Lim <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Somewhat related to this. Is our policy for classroom use still free for a group meeting with member(s) who are part of Skullspace? On 5/7/14, R Rodd <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Sounds great, Theo - I'm in! > > "More learning? Yes please!" > On May 7, 2014 2:15 PM, "Theo Baschak" > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> I have been prepping an "afternoon IPv6 workshop" since BSides basically, >> for a hackathon or perhaps even its own event. Oriented to network guys, >> server dudes, and perhaps even programmers, who want to be more aware of >> and get familiar (yes, hands on) with IPv6. Some of the topics: >> Addressing/Subnetting, new concepts (SLAAC, ULA, privacy addressing), >> v4/v6 >> rough equivalencies where they exist and the differences from v4, NO NEED >> FOR NAT (but you still can), what IPv6 looks/works like for home users, >> to >> name a few. >> >> There has been some interest expressed by others in both putting this on, >> and also in attending such a talk/workshop. >> >> -- >> Theo >> >> >> >> On May 7, 2014, at 11:22 AM, Robert Keizer >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> > I'd be interested in doing a design 101 course.. and I imagine that >> > with a little advertising lots of people would also attend. >> > >> > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Rylaan Gimby >> > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> That course was really exciting to me for the reason you mentioned, it >> ties >> >> the fundamental hardware concepts all the way to the software. The >> >> only >> >> thing we need to make sure of is that the test answers don't get out >> online. >> >> They use this in universities, so having homework answers online is a >> >> problem. >> >> >> >> On May 3, 2014 1:37 PM, "R Rodd" >> >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I could teach that course for you, Rylaan, or co-teach as I know we >> have >> >>> several members skilled in the material covered by it and likely more >> than a >> >>> few interested in teaching it. >> >>> >> >>> The video you linked mentioned it being a 12 week structure - I'm >> >>> game >> for >> >>> doing it over the summer but when would be best for yourself and >> >>> other >> >>> potential participants? >> >>> >> >>> From the description in the video it is exactly the kind of course >> >>> that >> >>> should have been in my Comp. Eng. program in 2nd or 3rd year to "tie >> it all >> >>> together" .. fortunately for me I was doing similar projects in high >> school >> >>> and through the IEEE student group on campus. Those projects gave >> context >> >>> to the abstract theories covered in class. >> >>> >> >>> - Richard >> >>> >> >>> On May 3, 2014 12:14 PM, "Rylaan Gimby" >> >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> I have a Graphic Design 101 course that I've been planning for >> >>>> years. >> >>>> Maybe it's time to put it on. >> >>>> >> >>>> I also just received the teaching materials for this course, >> >>>> http://www.nand2tetris.org/ I don't know if I have the technical >> abilities >> >>>> to put it on though, since I would be learning myself. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Adrian Stoness >> >>>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> id be down for that rhinoceros corse been yrs since i last looked >> >>>>> ath >> >>>>> that program >> >>>>> >> >>>>> on another note justing i got a photo going up at this >> >>>>> http://www.labiennale.org/en/architecture/news/25-01.html?back=true >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Justin Lacko >> >>>>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> We may not be fully sustainable on our own yet, but I think that >> with >> >>>>>> each passing month we are getting closer and closer to that goal. >> In the >> >>>>>> time since I've left I've seen many new names be added to the list >> of >> >>>>>> members. I think there would be cause for concern if that wasn't >> happening, >> >>>>>> but it is. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> As Mark said, SkSp will always be about people donating their time >> (and >> >>>>>> their money) to the continuation of the space. But this is a >> >>>>>> proven >> business >> >>>>>> model for orgs such as ours and I think we should continue to >> embrace it. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I think I mentioned it in the past that in my experience of >> >>>>>> sitting >> on >> >>>>>> a different board, that organization met at a semi-private school. >> Each time >> >>>>>> we had a meeting, we made a resolution to donate $40 or something >> to the >> >>>>>> school, in exchange for letting us use their facilities. That >> >>>>>> board >> had >> >>>>>> money in the bank, so I wouldn't expect it from every org that >> >>>>>> uses >> our >> >>>>>> space, but I think it's the right attitude towards using our >> >>>>>> space. >> A >> >>>>>> gentle, non-direct request for donations in exchange for our >> facilities >> >>>>>> wouldn't hurt anybody - and nobody would be obliged to donate if >> they >> >>>>>> couldn't/didn't want to. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> As much as there's shared worries about the financial future of >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> space, it seems like we are on the right track, and now is the >> >>>>>> time >> to >> >>>>>> re-focus our sustainability strategies on growing our membership >> base >> >>>>>> through value-added content, like workshops and circuit-bending >> nights and >> >>>>>> everything else. In the future, it would be greatly satisfying to >> see a >> >>>>>> calendar with an event/workshop almost every night - everything >> >>>>>> from >> >>>>>> hacker-themed cooking classes to PGP how-tos to CTFs etc etc - >> >>>>>> that >> will be >> >>>>>> the draw for people to join and donate their time. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> If I'm around in August, feel free to put me down for a >> multi-evening >> >>>>>> course teaching Rhinoceros 3D modeling and VRay rendering skills! >> I'll help >> >>>>>> out with SkSp however I can. And of course Friday night movie >> nights :) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -Justin >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 3 May 2014 01:33, Mark Jenkins >> >>>>>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I'm very pleased to hear that a portion of the fees were paid to >> SkSp >> >>>>>>>> as >> >>>>>>>> a thank-you for using the space. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I see it more than just thank-you but as respectful rent decided >> >>>>>>> on >> >>>>>>> upfront -- if she's making money teaching to mostly non-members >> then >> >>>>>>> Skullspace deserves a cut for its contribution. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> It's different if is someone is charging money for a members-only >> >>>>>>> workshop (then Skullspace needs no rent as Skullspace is getting >> value by a >> >>>>>>> member specific or member discounted service being delivered) or >> if the room >> >>>>>>> is used by something like a usergroup (where nobody is getting >> paid). >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> For usergroups with hacker worthy subject matter, we might not >> want to >> >>>>>>> go as far as asking rent, but to make a requirement that they >> circulate a >> >>>>>>> collection donation cup/hat/pot to their attendees each time they >> use the >> >>>>>>> room. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Even our internal events with non-members showing up should >> include a >> >>>>>>> good cup passing beg moment when we've got the crowd in our >> >>>>>>> palms. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>>>>>> Help: >> >>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>>>>>> Archive: >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>>>>> Archive: >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>>>> Archive: >> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Rylaan >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ -- Rylaan _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: 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