I liked this part of what Mele had to say: "I'm not saying that it's not okay to be angry, but it's important at this stage to remain as level-headed as possible or seek the help of a mediator to make sure your message is communicated successfully. At the same time, the person who mistakenly acted in an offensive way is expected to demonstrate that they are listening and that they will try their best to avoid similar offenses in the future.
I know this probably all sounds silly, but we make mistakes, we will always make mistakes, let's try not to repeat them but use them as an opportunity to learn from each other." I don't feel I can remain a participant in this list while any ban on Serge is in place. I'm banning myself out of sympathy, trashing my future reputation as a world class mediator in the process. Ah well. Please someone let me know when you lift the ban and I will re-subscribe. This is truly bizarro world. Please don't GamerGate yourselves? Love On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Clifford Snow <cliff...@snowandsnow.us> wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Paul Norman <penor...@mac.com> wrote: > >> On 12/2/2014 3:22 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: >> >>> Your justification for this seems to be behaviour outside of this list >>> and/or, and this is the bit I take particular offense with, >>> >>> "The private responses to me have generally expressed that is part of a >>> pattern of behavior, and not an isolated incident." >>> >>> Which, in essence, means nothing less than people having emailed you in >>> private and influenced your decision by telling you bad things about >>> Serge. >>> >>> I've been on the unpleasant end of moderation myself and I can tell you >>> that there's few things more hurtful than having a "secret court" >>> against you in which some people get the chance to whisper something in >>> the moderator's ear, and the moderator ends up partly justifying their >>> decision by what he's been told. >>> >> Given that this decision involves an outcome far exceeding previous >> precedents[1] based on allegations he was not given a chance to respond to >> and involved activities outside the scope of the OSMF, I would strongly >> encourage Serge to raise the moderator action to the appropriate body as >> unreasonable. The appropriate body is probably the CWG. >> >> It should also be noted that moderator action cannot be justified as >> enforcing a code of conduct when that code of conduct has not been adopted >> with the consensus of the list, list-wide consensus, a directive from a WG >> responsible, or a board decision. A moderator could use such a code of >> conduct as a guide to coming to a decision, but the decision must be >> justified in of itself. > > > > Frederik and Paul, > Am I to understand that felt Serge's comments were acceptable behavior? I > was expecting to find that you at least didn't condone it. but sadly no > where did you say Serge's comments were unacceptable. I understand wanting > to go to bat for Serge. He is a big contributor to OSM. But there needs to > be consequences for our actions. I don't think what he did is excusable. > Personally I would like to see Serge apologize to Alyssa and the community. > We need help understanding neurodiversity, Serge can help. > > Kai Krueger, Jo Walsh, Melelani Sax-Barnett, Alan McConchie and others all > responded with well crafted messages on this issue. Darrell even offered a > process for Serge to appeal his decision. > > Clifford Snow > > > -- > @osm_seattle > osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch > > _______________________________________________ > diversity-talk mailing list > diversity-talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk > >
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