On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 16:08:07 +0100 KatolaZ <kato...@freaknet.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 10:42:49AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > But Debian does allow the installation of nonfree drivers. And, if > > I recall correctly last time I installed (a long, long time ago), > > it did ask the question. > > > > We want the reputation of rejecting monolithic blocks of horrible > > code when that is practical, and in the case of systemd, we want to > > show that it is practical, and even beneficial. > > > > We don't want to give the impression that without systemd, video > > card performance is the pits. > > > > This is the standard policy in Debian, AFAIK: > > https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware#Firmware_during_the_installation > > The debian installer does *not* provide non-free firmware but allows > the user to provide it in a separete medium (e.g.,a USB stick) and the > installer will ask during installation if the user wants to use that > firmware. This can be a big problem for the user. Imagine... You're just a normal guy, not a Linux guru. You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your network card needs a firmware. Ummm, what firmware? How do I find it? In what form do I put it on my thumb drive? How do I make it available to the computer? How do I find out the exact make and model of my network card. I guess I should have a System Rescue CD cd hanging around, but I don't, and even so, I'm not all that great at reading the output of lshw and corellating it to where I get firmware, especially since there's all sorts of old and erroneous crap about specific firmware (just google bcm43xx (example https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx). Getting those old Broadcoms to work took hours or days back in the old days.). Noting that System Rescue CD has no problem with your network card, you install Ubuntu. Bang, it slides on perfectly. Hey, you know, Ubuntu's pretty good. Perhaps Devuan's just not adaptable to varieties of hardware. You'll use Ubuntu. Now look at this quote from the previously quoted Debian firmware wiki page: =============================================================== Before starting the installation process on hardware unfamiliar to you, a suggestion is to download the firmware tarball for your installation and unpack it into a directory named "firmware" in the root of a removable storage device. When the installer starts, it will automatically find the firmware files in the directory on the removable storage and, if needed, install the firmware for your hardware. The link to the firmware download for your Debian version is http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/firmware/. =============================================================== Why, why, WHY was that not stated *right up front*? From the beginning, *scream* "Don't waste time: If you get a prompt saying unsupported hardware, load the right stuff into your thumbdrive and just try again." Very explicit, exact instructions should be given how to do this. Imagine the difference... You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the documentation *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, and the install goes perfectly. Devuan was every bit as good as you thought. Bottom line: Be on the same team as reasonable users. SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng