Craig and Everyone,
G&SR has positioned
> themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of
fraud
> and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to G&SR.
> They're out.
>
> If you were G&SR, would you trust another wire from an operation that
> recently left you short $150,000?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Craig
Maybe I am sticking my nose in here, but, as far as trusting an
operation that left someone $150,000 short, it was my understanding that
those funds never left the e-gold system. (aka OutExchanged) By the way,
what do you mean "They're out"??? Did the funds leave the e-gold system?
Were they outexchanged somehow? Doesn't G&SR have the ability to track where
the funds were spent? IF they were outexchanged, they know who outexchanged
them, right? Mr. Moore was just as much a victim of this scam as were the
banks that honored the checks, the banks that released the funds, and G&SR.
Mr. Moore did not write these checks, he just accepted them for deposit.
How long was it before he was notified about the checks being bad? Was it
not something over 15 days? This is not unlike the methods PayPal uses to
accuse Market Makers of accepting fraudulent funds from someone who uses a
bogus credit card to fund their PayPal account, then by e-gold.
My point? Well, it seems to me that the Market Makers are the
individuals who are tasked with bringing in the "fresh faces" to the e-gold
system and Gold Economy. How so? Market Makers are the services that allow
outsiders to change their currency to e-gold and become a "player" so to
speak. Without new users, how long would e-gold last? IF there are only
less than 100 K active accounts, could it last without adding new funds to
the economy? Since G&SR are increasing their InExchange requirements, this
in effect, distances them from reputable forms of payment. (Smart move!) As
you know, no matter what policy you have in place, no matter how careful
your company, we are ALL victim to scams from time to time. We, the Market
Makers, simply do not have the ability to be protected with a wall of
payment processors as G&SR is putting into place in the form of Market
Makers. G&SR obviously knows the cost of accepting direct payment from its
clients---fraud and bank fees. IS there really another reason this "pie" is
so quickly shared? (Meaning? Why else do they offer Market Makers a chance
to make a profit off of something that they could do themselves?)
Now, I am not shirking responsibility here, I am just stating that it
appears to me that Mr. Moore followed the rules of the game. He deposited
the checks. He waited until his bank cleared those checks. He even waited
a few more days THEN released the funds to the scumbag's e-gold account. It
was the banks that then took those funds back from G&SR, not Mr. Moore.
(Or, did I get this story all wrong? Did Mike actually take the funds back
from G&SR? If so, how in the world did he pull that off? Mike, if you DID
do that, can I give you a list of...just kidding!) It was my understanding
that Mike was then accused of having been a co-conspirator to this whole
scam. (Remember, this all took place during the IR Summit in October. Mr.
Moore generously financed a banquet with Mr. Kelly for the event even
though he DID NOT ATTEND! Pretty brazen if he was attempting to scam G&SR,
wouldn't you say?) Why do people think that someone who has been working
like hell to promote e-gold and bring users into the system daily would
suddenly be out to steal from the hand that feeds them? $150,000 may seem
like a large amount, but how long will that get you by in today's world?
Why would someone risk jail time, a successful company, continued profit,
and possible future endeavors for a one time payout? Would you give up your
business for a one time score of $150 K? I wouldn't, that money would only
last a year or two. I would rather earn a legitimate living and play be the
rules. I am quite sure Mr. Moore feels the same.
So, where is my little diatribe leading? It amazes me that as soon as
something happens and a Market Maker is hit by a scam, he suddenly finds
himself having fingers pointed at him. Craig, if I remember correctly,
didn't PayPal shut your account down for a few weeks for one reason or
another? Does that mean that G&SR should not trust you anymore? OR your
clients should not trust you because a company took action against you that
was beyond your control? (or even comprehension?)
How does that relate? Another entity took action against other peoples'
funds that happened to involve your company, yes? This is what happened
with Goldtoday, no? A bank reversed a wire (or took the funds back somehow)
because he accepted a bad check and released funds AFTER it cleared.
Should this not have been the banks fault that honored the check? Shouldn't
they have taken the loss on that?
I agree with everyone that an arbitration body is needed to hold funds
when a situation such as this arises. IF funds are not outexchanged, then
the credit is still in the e-gold system, yes? Those funds could then be
returned to the RIGHTFUL owner when the situation is analyzed and facts
presented. The rightful owner could be the bank, the Market Maker, or even
G&SR, depending on the situation.
If this system is going to last, and by "last" I mean continue on well
past our time on this Earth, what is needed it teamwork from all sides. The
Market Markers, G&SR, e-gold Ltd., and even the users out there. I am smart
enough to know there will always be scammers out there. Knowing that, we
(G&SR, e-gold Ltd., the Market Makers, and an arbitration body) need to work
together to eliminate fraud and the fraudsters...not each other! Scammers
accounts should be frozen and turned over to the arbitrator. IF the scammer
cheated someone, restitution should be made. If not, then the funds should
be returned (again) to the RIGHTFUL owner.
"Of course, that is just my opinion, folks, I could be wrong! I want to
know what you think America..."---Dennis Miller
Just a few thoughts.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Haynie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: e-gold Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 4:59 PM
Subject: [e-gold-list] RE: why?
> > a) the funds were 'frozen' so not lost,
> >
> > b)Authorities were notified so the criminals could be apprehended.
> >
> > so your 'guess' is as good as mine.
> >
> > Being just a small business person in another country confronting a
large
> > multimillion dollar company
> > in the US on one side and 2 multinational banks on the other, there was
> not
> > much I could do
> > about it.
>
> With all due respect, there are two sides to every story. I may be drawing
> some suppostions here, but as I read the tale you told, you sent $150,000
US
> dollars to G&SR, which went bad. This is more than they are likely to make
> in profit in the next several months of operation. G&SR has positioned
> themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of
fraud
> and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to G&SR.
> They're out.
>
> If you were G&SR, would you trust another wire from an operation that
> recently left you short $150,000?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Craig
>
>
>
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