Eric,
I feel you hit the point right on the nose. I also feel that Michael did not
deserve this from G&SR.
One point that I would like to make is that it was G&SR that got these
Market Makers started. Why??? I have asked myself this as they are losing a
lot of money, therfore allowing someone like you and Michael to cash in. Why
did they really do this? One reason may just be because of what has happened
to Michael. Why should they lose the money? Why not let you, the Market
Makers take the Risk?
So, you see, they have cleared themselves of any of these kind of problems.
As for myself, I am happy that you guys are out there but I would not want
to be in your shoes.
I can assume that there has been more than Just Michael's problem. Maybe not
as large but still, now it is the Market Makers that have the risk and not
G&SR
Just my personal thoughts,
Thanks
MIKE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "e-gold Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:18 PM
Subject: [e-gold-list] RE: why?
> Craig and Everyone,
>
> G&SR has positioned
> > themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of
> fraud
> > and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to
G&SR.
> > They're out.
> >
> > If you were G&SR, would you trust another wire from an operation that
> > recently left you short $150,000?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Craig
>
>
> Maybe I am sticking my nose in here, but, as far as trusting an
> operation that left someone $150,000 short, it was my understanding that
> those funds never left the e-gold system. (aka OutExchanged) By the way,
> what do you mean "They're out"??? Did the funds leave the e-gold system?
> Were they outexchanged somehow? Doesn't G&SR have the ability to track
where
> the funds were spent? IF they were outexchanged, they know who
outexchanged
> them, right? Mr. Moore was just as much a victim of this scam as were the
> banks that honored the checks, the banks that released the funds, and
G&SR.
> Mr. Moore did not write these checks, he just accepted them for deposit.
> How long was it before he was notified about the checks being bad? Was it
> not something over 15 days? This is not unlike the methods PayPal uses to
> accuse Market Makers of accepting fraudulent funds from someone who uses a
> bogus credit card to fund their PayPal account, then by e-gold.
>
> My point? Well, it seems to me that the Market Makers are the
> individuals who are tasked with bringing in the "fresh faces" to the
e-gold
> system and Gold Economy. How so? Market Makers are the services that
allow
> outsiders to change their currency to e-gold and become a "player" so to
> speak. Without new users, how long would e-gold last? IF there are only
> less than 100 K active accounts, could it last without adding new funds to
> the economy? Since G&SR are increasing their InExchange requirements,
this
> in effect, distances them from reputable forms of payment. (Smart move!)
As
> you know, no matter what policy you have in place, no matter how careful
> your company, we are ALL victim to scams from time to time. We, the
Market
> Makers, simply do not have the ability to be protected with a wall of
> payment processors as G&SR is putting into place in the form of Market
> Makers. G&SR obviously knows the cost of accepting direct payment from
its
> clients---fraud and bank fees. IS there really another reason this "pie"
is
> so quickly shared? (Meaning? Why else do they offer Market Makers a
chance
> to make a profit off of something that they could do themselves?)
>
> Now, I am not shirking responsibility here, I am just stating that it
> appears to me that Mr. Moore followed the rules of the game. He deposited
> the checks. He waited until his bank cleared those checks. He even
waited
> a few more days THEN released the funds to the scumbag's e-gold account.
It
> was the banks that then took those funds back from G&SR, not Mr. Moore.
> (Or, did I get this story all wrong? Did Mike actually take the funds
back
> from G&SR? If so, how in the world did he pull that off? Mike, if you DID
> do that, can I give you a list of...just kidding!) It was my
understanding
> that Mike was then accused of having been a co-conspirator to this whole
> scam. (Remember, this all took place during the IR Summit in October. Mr.
> Moore generously financed a banquet with Mr. Kelly for the event even
> though he DID NOT ATTEND! Pretty brazen if he was attempting to scam
G&SR,
> wouldn't you say?) Why do people think that someone who has been working
> like hell to promote e-gold and bring users into the system daily would
> suddenly be out to steal from the hand that feeds them? $150,000 may seem
> like a large amount, but how long will that get you by in today's world?
> Why would someone risk jail time, a successful company, continued profit,
> and possible future endeavors for a one time payout? Would you give up
your
> business for a one time score of $150 K? I wouldn't, that money would
only
> last a year or two. I would rather earn a legitimate living and play be
the
> rules. I am quite sure Mr. Moore feels the same.
>
> So, where is my little diatribe leading? It amazes me that as soon as
> something happens and a Market Maker is hit by a scam, he suddenly finds
> himself having fingers pointed at him. Craig, if I remember correctly,
> didn't PayPal shut your account down for a few weeks for one reason or
> another? Does that mean that G&SR should not trust you anymore? OR your
> clients should not trust you because a company took action against you
that
> was beyond your control? (or even comprehension?)
> How does that relate? Another entity took action against other peoples'
> funds that happened to involve your company, yes? This is what happened
> with Goldtoday, no? A bank reversed a wire (or took the funds back
somehow)
> because he accepted a bad check and released funds AFTER it cleared.
> Should this not have been the banks fault that honored the check?
Shouldn't
> they have taken the loss on that?
>
> I agree with everyone that an arbitration body is needed to hold
funds
> when a situation such as this arises. IF funds are not outexchanged, then
> the credit is still in the e-gold system, yes? Those funds could then be
> returned to the RIGHTFUL owner when the situation is analyzed and facts
> presented. The rightful owner could be the bank, the Market Maker, or
even
> G&SR, depending on the situation.
>
> If this system is going to last, and by "last" I mean continue on well
> past our time on this Earth, what is needed it teamwork from all sides.
The
> Market Markers, G&SR, e-gold Ltd., and even the users out there. I am
smart
> enough to know there will always be scammers out there. Knowing that, we
> (G&SR, e-gold Ltd., the Market Makers, and an arbitration body) need to
work
> together to eliminate fraud and the fraudsters...not each other! Scammers
> accounts should be frozen and turned over to the arbitrator. IF the
scammer
> cheated someone, restitution should be made. If not, then the funds
should
> be returned (again) to the RIGHTFUL owner.
>
> "Of course, that is just my opinion, folks, I could be wrong! I want to
> know what you think America..."---Dennis Miller
>
> Just a few thoughts.
>
> Eric
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Haynie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: e-gold Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 4:59 PM
> Subject: [e-gold-list] RE: why?
>
>
> > > a) the funds were 'frozen' so not lost,
> > >
> > > b)Authorities were notified so the criminals could be apprehended.
> > >
> > > so your 'guess' is as good as mine.
> > >
> > > Being just a small business person in another country confronting a
> large
> > > multimillion dollar company
> > > in the US on one side and 2 multinational banks on the other, there
was
> > not
> > > much I could do
> > > about it.
> >
> > With all due respect, there are two sides to every story. I may be
drawing
> > some suppostions here, but as I read the tale you told, you sent
$150,000
> US
> > dollars to G&SR, which went bad. This is more than they are likely to
make
> > in profit in the next several months of operation. G&SR has positioned
> > themselves so that they do not act as judge and jury on accusations of
> fraud
> > and the gold sitting in the questionable account does NOT belong to
G&SR.
> > They're out.
> >
> > If you were G&SR, would you trust another wire from an operation that
> > recently left you short $150,000?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
