In a message dated 9/8/98 6:36:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<Sorry again for offending you. Paganism is a religion? Annnd What spirit?
Who is/are the spirits in that religion? >>
You want the short list or the long one? while it varies by individual &
coven or circle basically The Goddess & her consort the God. Who are both
inextricable linked to the earth. After all in most of the pantheons many of
the goddesses are fertility or harvest goddesses. The thing that varies in
particular is the pantheon of ancient gods one choose from. Most common I
find is the Celtic gods Cerridwen & Herne or Cernunnoss (sp) OR the Greeks
Athene & Apollo or Aphrodite or Demeter, Persephone & Hades & Hephestus OR the
Egyptians Isis, Osiris & Horus. However there is a huge number of Goddess
pantheons to choose from & they all tend to have the dieties as inextincable
linked to nature. Even in the early days of the Greek pantheon the goddesses
had enormous power before Zeus went around subdueing them all by various means
usually rape. In fact the overwhelming majority of the Greek goddesses
existed independently previous to Greek usurption. Hecate & Hera & others
that aren't coming to mind at the moment were originally Persian. Athene was
from Crete. & the list goes on. The biggest difference between the big 3
abrahamic religions & paganism per se is that you all have your theology
conveniently collected in one or a few tomes. Ours as a result of the burning
times, which didn't just burn people BTW is all spread out & in some cases
just plain lost. also being a qabalahist I also hold to a divine entity that
is actually above the gods whom everyone including them has to answer to & is
directed by. The really interesting thing about this is all of our (us
humans) thoughts & actions contribute to the direction this universal power
tends to flow in & creates a kind of viscious circle if we as a groups tend to
head in a particular direction by sending us more strongly in that direction.
I call this eithe akasha or kether or the universal consciousness depending
on your paricular religious orientation. also it has no sex, it is neither
male nor female but also both at the same time. On the quabahic tree it is
the topmost sepherah & the ones for the gods & goddesses are just below it.
the only diety I know of that is analogical to it is the Native American Great
Spirit if you hold to the older version where it is neither a he or a she but
also can be both depending on what is neccessary. My personal Goddesses are
Morrigan, Kali, Maat, & Hecate but unlike alot of pagans I don't adhere
strictly to one pantheon or goddess. Instead I will choose the set that will
be most effective for the spell I'm trying to work, or if I'm working with
others who have a particular preference. The difference between a spell & a
prayer is simple, we just add an extra umph to a prayer by using things to
embody it there by giving something for the universal consciousness to latch
onto more strongly. We use candles, incense, herbs, stones, magickal
alpabets, arts & crafts, etc. to contribute to the energy of a spell. No real
true pagan will NEVER sacrifice a small animal or use human blood as an energy
base. That is abhorent to us!!!!!!! & we tend to frown greatly when others
do it as many of us can feel the energy in the area it was done or the people
who did it has turned nasty. Besides in the case of human blood HIV is a
large concern, & in the case of animals Rabies in some states is running
rampit. Our primary tenet or rule is "And it harm none do as thou wilt" & if
you are following it in the way it was meant it also applies to your secular
life as well. Although one large difference for many of us is that nothing in
life is profane as such. It can be made to be profane by polluting it with
bad energy. But all pagans would strive to avoid such situations
scrupulously. Going back to the dieties, other than the logic of choosing a
diety who has more power over an effect I'm are trying to attain in a spell
the other reason I don't hold to any particular set is respect for them all as
equal & trying to get the rest of the world to understand that if any one
diety is respected as superior to the rest will unbalance the universal energy
& the world in turn. This does not mean if a diety has particular appeal to
you, that you shouldn't choose to use her/him exclusively but instead a simple
respect for how the power flows & the result if it is upset.
We may call ourselves pagan but the vast majority of us are Wiccan at the base
of what we believe. We just use the term pagan because more people will
recognize it. The US Military recognize in it's chaplain's manual of official
recognized religions 2 forms of Wiccan, Gardinerian Wicca, & Wicca. It merely
defines them but does not go much into holy days or theology. Given that your
ordination has to be recognized by some particular board most of the chaplains
in the military are Catholic, or Protestant. there are a few Rabbis who are
chaplains but a few, & I've heard they are looking for a Islamic relgious
leader, I beleive they are called Caliphs.
One of the major things that appeals to many in this religion is that there is
no central religious authority telling us what to believe or that we are bad
if we don't believe that. Alot of us got quite fed up with that in other
religions & it is a very big turn off. Another appeal for us is the view of
sexuality. Sex is just as sacred to us as everything else. That does not
mean we are promiscious as a group, although some of us are. Many of us are
happily loyally married with children. Those that are promiscious or into
polygamy or serial monagamy are usually messed up sexually to begin with & are
still trying to straighten it out. At the root of the God & Goddess is their
Sacred Marriage & ideally we as pagans should be emulating that in our own
partnerships. This Sacred Marriage is basically a partnership sexually,
spiritually, emotionally, mentally & physically. In Human terms it is 2
people who consciously choose to be each others support & to be dependent on
the other in every way for that support.
We have 8 holy days or Sabbats; which are Winter Solstice, Imbolc (feb 1 or
2), Spring Equinox, Beltane (apr 30), Summer Solstice, Lammas (Aug 1),
Autumnal Equinox, & Samhain (oct 31). They can also go by other names as
well. They tend to folow the planting & harvest & Samhain (pr. sowen) is the
last day of our religious calendar & the new year as well as our day of
mourning for those who have passed into the summerland in the previous year.
(those who have died.) If you want more specifics as to what happens in the
celebration of the Sabbats I would direct you to the following book by Janet &
Stewart Farrar; Eight Sabbats For Witches . If you would like me to summarize
instead let me know. However any New Age bookstore worthy of the name should
stock it & Borders regularly stocks nationwide. In recent years therre has
been a proliferation of "pagan" books, some are quite good, some are utter
crap & don't deserve the trees that where cut for their paper. If you would
like a good list of books to look at in this area let me know & I will send
one.
Personally I am deeply religious & my faith is greatly stronger than the
majority of people professing to be religious out there. My political views
are profoundly based in my religion especially my views on the environement,
diversity & sexuality.
If you have any particular questions regarding all this, let me know & if i
can answer them I will. If in the rare case I can't I will find out from
someone else.
_________,---------.____------.___
/_______ `--._______ `--.____ \\
/__.-' `-----.____ `--.____\\`_/_
,' ___ `---.___ ___// `-.
/ _.-' )' ``---' \ \
| / | . ' |
/ / / | ' ___ ) | |
| | | _/` _ ` _,' _ `/) ' |
\_ `--._\__`--'_\-___ _,-' '-` ___ _/
`---.____ `--.__-_ /_)____, __/ ,`-'
`------__> `-------(/(/-'-\)\)
"let sleeping dragons lie"
"the goddess will shortly shake off her fleas"
Blessed Be;
Aedrienne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Sep 8 14:21:09 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:20:55 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why men batter women
In a message dated 9/8/98 9:24:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<Yes, I think I may denounce citizenship if Gingrich became president, and
I live in Georgia as well. A Republican on this listserv, how novel!>>
to be more specific I'm a libertarian Rpublican; that is reminding people that
Abe Lincoln & many other early Civil Rights leaders were republican which is
why I am. I wish my party would drop the religious right crap & get back to
the roots of what the party started as & i continue to work towards that end.
Aedrienne
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Sep 8 14:25:30 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:24:58 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How 'eco' can heal 'fem'
In a message dated 98-09-08 15:27:35 EDT, Paisin writes:
<< Here's a question for you, Angela. What if one, or two or ALL of your
kids turn out to be GAY? How will you be able to continue to LOVE and
SUPPORT them when Christianity (for the most part except for some recent
splinter groups who are "loving and reaffirming") says they are an
abomination? How will you reconcile that with that "holy book"?
>>
Hi Paisin,
The answer to this question is YES I would still love them - In my book - any
love is good love! AND I never usually do things by the book - I am
extremely liberal and open-minded and open-hearted - I do not feel that I
would have to relinquish my own Christian spiritual beliefs and I would hope
that my children wouldn't either. As for the Holy Book - never read it - was
taught about it through my upbringing. What I like about Christianity is the
sacraments (outwords signs to God/The Creator that we believe!) We may not
have proof - but we believe! A lot of what I believe is based on faith from
praying/answered prayers and reading inspiring prophetic literature. However,
I think I am catching a pattern here _ most pagans were once Christians who
were taught to only to fear and obey God - what about teachings about Jesus,
about trust, discipline, love and honor, salvation - anything? Why were all
of you not taught that being Christian can bring joy and light into your
worlds not more darkness? Or was that something that was just reserved for
white straight men who obeyed?
Paisin, I do not want to start discussing Christianity on this listserv
indepth because there are many misunderstanding that Pagans refuse to see -
you all seem to have your minds made up - regarding past mistakes by
Christians (other then myself) please learn to forgive (it has a great power
to HEAL) pagan beliefs work you - Christianity works for me - lets leave it
at that.
Heres a little something about my Christianity: I am awed by the mystery of
the holy spirit of creation - God is Cool to me! I am blessed with faith
that this will all have a final answer someday - love eternal - In the Omega
will be the final piece of the puzzle. I am on this journey of life for a
reason. I am a story within a story (the grand epoch)! I have my place and I
may even have a mission. Now, I have discussed that there is a femme divine in
Christianity - Amazing - I could live to be 36 and not know that Mary - Mother
of Jesus - is the Queen of Heaven and EARTH- the femme Divine! She was given
this crown a long time ago and yet I was raised to believe (probably not
intentionally, but that no additional efforts were made to reveal this in
anyway, shape or form by the males in power in the churches-something I hope
to help remedy) that she was just only Queen of Heaven? - only honorable
mention of her now and again - not enough to write home about - now I see
things more holisticly - She completes the picture for me as the feminine face
of creation - she is Queen of Heaven and Earth - mother of all living things -
the cause of my salvation - is it possible that when you pray/meditate and as
mentioned previously the Goddess speaks to you in nature - that it is the same
spirit - her mother herself? How can any of us say without a question of a
doubt that we are sole heirs to the truth? Keep seeking maybe we shall find
the whole truth! It is possible that we are discussing the same spirits in
different texts? You say that the male/female spirits in pagan beliefs
complete the picture for you - Well Jesus(male savior/God/king) Mary (female
source of salvation/queen) Holy Spirit work together for Christian salvation
(Him/Her - they together work to help save us and they can help us all heal
the misunderstandings and mistakes of the past - if we just let them in our
hearts -let go and trust!
Love,
Angela
I commend your effort to find and heal the
feminine face of creation from within christianity. I think it's GREAT...
it's a huge task though... cause if the feminine is truly to be revered
within that structure, the book has got to go.
