Jake we dont need seperatism on this listserv (coming from me -how
shocking!) so refrain from trying to rile up the nonpagans on this list!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Jake A Paisain wrote:
>
> I think both can and must heal each other... healing is more effective
> when it is a two-way street. I have learned that especially from my
> practice of Reiki, a healing art which enlists the aid of "life force
> energy" direct from its source.
>
> I too consider myself a pagan... maybe more a neo-pagan, really, since I
> live in the "modern world" and was raised a catholic... and my paganism is
> largely a response to those two facts.
>
> As far as the dictionary definition of 'pagan' goes, I think a lot of
> pagans would scoff at the dictionary itself. It can also be an oppressive
> patriarchal tool... in fact the whole of writing and text can be if it is
> used that way... and I for one, believe that the writings of the Bible in
> particular have and continue to be used that way...
>
> > The Earth was never intended to be dominated by over-
> > zealous, disrespectful, power hungry, greedy men or women!
>
> Okay. Here's where we get to the crux of the matter. Angela, who is
> doing the "intending" here? If it is the Christian god mentioned in the
> Bible, I think you need to do a little more reading there too. I was not
> offended by your remarks about paganism because this one remark of yours
> shows some ignorance about your own self-identified religion (you did say
> you were a Christian, didn't you?) In the Bible, in the first book, right
> off the bat, the male sky-God Yahweh gives all the creatures of the Earth
> to the MAN to NAME and to USE as he sees fit. This process of NAMING is a
> means by which mankind seeks to make sense out of the world, but it also
> serves as a means by which to control and oppress and subjegate and
> dominate the rest of the world. By MAN placing definitions on WOMAN of
> what woman's place/identity/purpose/self is and should be, MAN has
> oppressed, subjegated, and dominated woman... all because of imposed
> societal/cultural/and yes even and especially LINGUISTIC definitions.
>
> Interestingly enough with all the squabble over who's "right and wrong" in
> the Ben Ladin/CIA/terrorist/bombing fiasco and talk about racism and
> democracy and spirituality, no one has mentioned that all three of those
> religions that are not "pagan" (Jew, Christian, Muslim) all source
> themselves from the same text. The OLD TESTAMENT is wrought with
> oppression, domination etc... women don't fare well at all... for example,
> when LOT gives up his daughter to be raped in the same episode where he is
> being extolled for being so loyal to the dominant, male, oppressive SKY
> God....
>
> Pagans believe they are connected to the earth. Pagans believe that the
> Goddess and the God are equally holy and come together every year through
> the changing of the seasons to renew and recreate the earth and provide
> for the peoples and the animals of the earth. The Christians KILLED,
> MURDERED, TORTURED, RAPED the women and men of the earth. Any woman that
> held knowledge of herbs, healing, birthing, natural earthly magic or who
> loved other women was considered a "witch" and tortured, burned,
> decimated. The definitions of "heretics" and "sodomites" (men who love
> men... although that really has nothing to do with the story of Sodom and
> was just used as such by the later church) were tied up and drawn and
> quartered.... all their limbs were pulled from their bodies, and then
> wrapped up in bundles of sticks. Want a dictionary definition that's
> really telling? Try: FAGGOT. In the dictionary, it's "a bundle of sticks
> used as kindling" which is also what it means in French, but it got used
> in reference to HOMOSEXUAL MEN because their drawn and quartered limbs
> were bundled up with their torsos and used as kindling to burn the
> WITCHES. This is why I firmly say that all oppression and subjegation of
> gay men is intricately, intimately linked with the oppression of women and
> why we must work together to overturn patriarchy once and for all.
>
> Here's a question for you, Angela. What if one, or two or ALL of your
> kids turn out to be GAY? How will you be able to continue to LOVE and
> SUPPORT them when Christianity (for the most part except for some recent
> splinter groups who are "loving and reaffirming") says they are an
> abomination? How will you reconcile that with that "holy book"?
>
> This is a serious question. I commend your effort to find and heal the
> feminine face of creation from within christianity. I think it's GREAT...
> it's a huge task though... cause if the feminine is truly to be revered
> within that structure, the book has got to go. There's no way around it
> that I can see... but then again, I'm just a lowly earthen faerie pagan
> who lives by the seasons, and not by the invisible dualistic laws of
> "heaven and hell, good and bad, right and wrong, just and unjust, and male
> and female" These are artificial dualities based on a too-simplistic
> world-view that also have to go if we're going to save the biosphere for
> continued human existence... thus for the future of your three precious
> boys.
>
> thanks for inspiring me to respond...
> paisain
>
>
>
>
> You need evidence?
> > Women were also given hearts and brains and muscle-we are not unequals - time
> > to start using them to prove it! The Earth needs equal partners/men and women
> > co-defenders and co-creators in true love for each other to help it heal!
> > Women and men need to come out of the woodwork here and speak up and out on
> > behalf of the feminine face(s) of creation! Let's celebrate the feminine and
> > reveal the truth - we ARE spirits in a material world!
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Angela
> >
>
>
