In a message dated 98-09-11 14:00:51 EDT, you write:
<< As to Mary; as warped by
your chosen religion, she comes across as the submissive, silently
longsuffering ANTITHESIS of Feminism, when she is mentioned at
all (which is not much, really). >>
JOE!!
I just read this again - are you kidding???????????????
What is so non-feminine about silent suffering and submissiveness to the
Spirit of Creation - are we above the Spirit of our Creation? Are we to
suffer in loud shouts and outrages - that's what causes wars! I am sorry I
was going to leave this discussion- now I feel I have to stay - because you
can't just say things like this without explaining it! - Please explain -
Maybe I misunderstood you - are you saying that we are ABOVE the Spirit of
Creation? Are you saying that Mary was not to be submissive to that Spirit?
What choice did she have when her son died she suffered - when people die we
suffer - the loss - and in heaven we are reunited - then why was Mary not to
suffer the loss of her son? She gave birth to him Joe!
Love,
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 11 12:52:18 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:51:45 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Regarding your page on Neopaganism!
In a message dated 98-09-11 14:00:51 EDT, you write:
<< As noted above, I have -- on what basis could you possibly assume
that I had not?
>>
Hi!
Joe, may I ask what literature you read about Mary if you had - besides the
Bible?
Thanks!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 11 13:23:23 1998
From: "Joe E. Dees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:23:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Regarding your page on Neopaganism!
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:38:59 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Regarding your page on Neopaganism!
> In a message dated 98-09-11 14:00:51 EDT, you write:
>
> << As long as you persist in taking your Bible (which you have not
> read) as infallible and literal Holy Writ, you will not be able to look at
> it critically; you will be limited to criticizing everything else on the
> basis of it.
> >>
> Hi!
>
> Joe, you really read the Bible 3 times - Why? It is really that hard to
> understand? I knew it probably would be - I would need a lot more time I know
> I- would probably want to read it 4 times - However, regarding Bible teaching
> and interpretation- I leave that to people who have more time and are better
> educated to do that. I take what I learn from them and apply it to everyday
> life - it works for me! I also allow for some misinterpretation because it
> was afterall written by mortal MEN (w/divine assistance - )- yes, they were
> divinely inspired but maybe they were thinking one-sided. And again it is
> interpreted by mortals - again I leave room for misinterpretation - as a rule
> of thumb - I follow the OBEY, TRUST AND HAVE FAITH in God parts and leave the
> rest open for my soul interpretation and application.
>
> As for non-preaching of Christian beliefs - consider it done right now _ I
> have been thinking of getting off the list - I do not fit here among Anti-
> Christians - I do not think we can come to any clear understanding of the root
> problem causing domination of the Earth and females - I just felt since you
> were slinging insults at the Christians as Patriarchial - I myself as a
> Christian needed to defend it properly - not the way the male clergy does -
> but as a female, non-racist, pro-femme, non-white supremist - person who
> believes in equity and respect to nature as part of the creation person and
> for love of Mary- I was in no way trying to recruit you or anyone else to
> Christianity (I will admit however that it would have been nice if I got you
> thinking about it again in a different light - But it is apparent to me that
> you have already diffused that light and every Pagan on this list has their
> minds made up to be Anti-Christ- That was, is and always will be between you
> and God -
>
I feel compelled to clarify here that NonChristian and AntiChristian
are not synonymous, except in the minds of many Christians, who
tend to have a dualistic, if-you're-not-with-us-you're-against-us
mentality (a mentality I do not believe you consciously share, or you
wouldn't be here). I left Christianity for a more personally palatable
alternative; this does not make me any more AntiChristian (or
constitutive of any Anti-Christ) than Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism,
Native American or Australian Aboriginal spirituality. Nor does it
mean that my light has been diffused; my conversion has instead
contributed, IMHO, to my focus and clarity of understanding, and to
my empathy for our both our home and for each other, with whom
we share it (some more responsibly than others), and as such has
had considerable positive spiritual meaning, value and benefit for me.
> Also, I am sorry I misunderstood your statement about racisim -
> misinterpretation causes a lot of problems - doesn't it! Wouldn't it be nice
> if we all understood it each better - Well, I hope you understand me and if
> anyone would like to continue the discussion about Christians, please let me
> know.
>
I accept, and would never assume that your misunderstanding was
motivated by any malevolence. Remember, however, that I
specifically addressed the issues of racism and homophobia later in
the paper. If anyone wants to know what all the fuss is about go to
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7169/Page4.html
> Can anyone tell me how other religions celebrate the Autumnal Equinox -It's
> August 23rd right?
>
> Peace!
> Angela
Good sources for seasonal celebrations include EIGHT SABBATS
FOR WITCHES by Janet & Stewart Farrar, ANCIENT WAYS by
Pauline Campanelli, THE GRANDMOTHER OF TIME by Z Budapest,
THE SABBATS by Edain McCoy, and SEASONS OF THE SUN by
Patricia Telesco.
