In my limited experience, the graduate environment is determined by your advisor's will to provide appropriate work space and support. Having these types of conversations with potential advisors is an important aspect in choosing a program, in my opinion. In terms of graduate value to a university, remember that many grants (a huge part of university income) are coupled to providing education and support to graduate students. A lot of good points brought up in this discussion. Thanks Alisha.
Tim On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:51 AM, James Crants <jcra...@gmail.com> wrote: > I went to Michigan, and I would say the Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > department there was pretty good to its grad students. If anything, > they've > been getting better since I started there nine years ago. I'm certainly > glad they didn't treat us the way your department is planning to treat you. > > One of the hidden values of grad students to a university is the way they > make it feasible to carry out major research projects. A university gets > a percentage of each grant its faculty members manage to land (there may be > exceptions), and a professor can get a bigger grant, and is more likely to > get a grant in the first place, if there are grad students to help with the > work. Also, since these big projects increase the prestige of the > institution and add permanent resources, such as high-value lab equipment, > they generate more income than is obvious on paper. It's easier for > professors at high-prestige universities to land more grant money, and > high-achieving undergrads with the potential to become rich, big-donating > alumni are drawn to high-prestige universities. > > I don't know how strong this argument is for ecology, which doesn't bring > in > as much grant money or generate as many millionaire alumns as some other > disciplines, but I think even ecology grad students must be a net positive > for the wealth and prestige of their institutions. > > Abstract arguments aside, what you describe sounds like the worst work > environment I've heard of any department providing its grad students > (fieldwork doesn't count). If my department had gone through with a plan > like that, I'd have considered taking my Master's and going elsewhere for > my > doctorate. > > Good luck. > > Jim > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Kevin Murray <klmurra...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > This is a very important topic. I dealt with similar negative attitudes > > towards grad students during my dissertation work. I know as scientists > we > > like to point to empirical evidence to support a point, but I can't help > > you > > there. I don't know of any papers on the matter. However, if you want to > > quickly estimate your value to the university, just envision a simple > > scenario. Imagine if every graduate student immediately stopped doing any > > work whatsoever to support the university. Imagine the university's > > response. Their anger (and fear) will be directly proportional to your > > value. If you and your graduate students demand respect as a group then > > your > > value will be recognized by the university, one way or another. Good > luck, > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Julie Byrd Hebert <byr...@umd.edu> > wrote: > > > > > Alisha > > > > > > I'm glad to see you bringing this topic up. I've been wondering what > the > > > climate for graduate students is like at different institutions. I > think > > it > > > is important to know because, in my experience, your description of the > > > value of graduate students (at least to the University Administrators) > is > > > much like my own. I have to wonder if this is part of the reason for > the > > > "decline of science and innovation" at least in the United States. Why > > > remain in a field where you don't feel valued? If the graduate students > > are > > > the future of science and technology one would think that there would > be > > > value in spending time, money, and effort in training these students > and > > > giving them a good work environment. I would like to think we are in > the > > > minority, but I have to wonder... > > > > > > Julie > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Alisha Dahlstrom < > > > alisha.dahlst...@gmail.com<mailto:alisha.dahlst...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I am currently a phd student in my second year. Currently, within my > > > > department, grad students share a small building with several rooms, > > 5-7 > > > in > > > > a room. There is a proposal to uproot all the students (and combine > > them > > > > with grad students in a similar department) to a renovated basement > > that > > > is > > > > currently not being used because it is moldy, has poor ventilation > and > > no > > > > natural lighting. Apart from a few short partitions, this would be a > > > large > > > > shared space that "packed as many students in as possible" (about 40; > > you > > > > can imagine the potential noise and disruptions). As the grad student > > > rep, > > > > when I explained this to the proponent of this new plan and asked for > > his > > > > justification, it was that "grad students aren't worth much to a > > > university > > > > (monetarily speaking, at least, undergrads earn a school more) and it > > > would > > > > be nice for visitors to see all the students in one space." > > > > > > > > As this plan seems to be moving forward rapidly, I would really like > to > > > > pull > > > > together some documentation that supports my belief that 1) grad > > students > > > > will have a higher completion rate and better output in a better > (e.g., > > > > quieter and well-lit) work environment and 2) grad students are > > actually > > > > valuable to a university. In my cursory, search, I haven't had much > > luck > > > - > > > > does anyone have any suggestions or input? Feel free to email me > > > directly. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Alisha > > > > > > > > > >
