Honorable Forum:
Re: "Why all this information has any relevance at all in the Ecolog forum?"
I continue to assert that culture is a psychopathology. Brutality (needless
infliction of damage) is not so much (though it exists, as seen through our
enculturated eyes) the province of "brutes" (the other animals) as it is in
"civilizations." Especially for those who believe that the effects of
culture are "part of the ecosystem" because humans are "part of the
ecosystem," the irony of this circularity may be lost, but so might the
dampening of such hysteresis accomplished by pre-cultural societies that
lasted, for example, for 40,000 years or so by social mores driven more by
needs than desires and depended upon the energy/nutrient cycles of the
ecosystems in which they were enmeshed rather than sucking
energy/nutrients/resources from ever more distant ecosystems to feed their
wildest dreams/oscillations.
In Petri dishes or earth systems, "success" defined by ever-expanding
populations, material goods, "advances in technology" and other artifacts of
minds driven by ergot, for example, with no ecologists questioning the
excesses to modulate the systems, will crash in rough proportion to the
amplitude of the fluctuation fed by culture. From ecology most fundamentally
springs the counter-force to unbridled power, to egocentrism and narcissism
writ larger and larger in the mirror containing the object of our worship.
No, this discussion has everything to do with ecology, and for Ecolog, it is
very well suited.
WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Frias-Torres" <sfrias_tor...@hotmail.com>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Catalunya
BillI agree with you.
Back in the day, I was fortunate to have Professor Margalef as one of my
teachers. He was already Emeritus professor but my class enjoyed his very
special lectures, sporadic and full of brain gymnastics. Professor Margalef
made an extraordinary effort to translate many of his textbooks and popular
science books to Catalan, quite a challenge considering how prolific he was.
Regarding the banderillas in bull-fighting, as you indicate, one of the
objectives is to severe muscles to minimize the ability of the bull to swim
the horns. But it also has the objective of debilitating the bull and making
the use of the sword easier. The "toro bravo", the special race of bulls
used in bull fighting, has very strong musculature in the frontal part of
its body. The muscular mass has strong attachments in the upper part, making
the characteristic "hump". This profile can also be observed in the American
Bison for example. Such muscle groups allow for explosive speed and impact.
If untouched, the toro will be too strong for the torero to deal with. So it
goes through several rounds of "taking away his force". Because in fact, the
torero, is not a brave as they want you to believe, you see. Banderillas
are just one of force-taking implements. There is also a "picador", a guy on
a horse, with a very long spear who keeps spearing the toro for long
periods. The combined effect of all this stabbing is to cut and macerate the
musculature, so finally, when the torero dressed in his very shiny outfit
comes around for the final moment (apparently the one that brings more
"pleasure" to the viewers), he can insert a sword that goes through the
heart of the toro. Nothing like a good sword to end the show.
Finally, you are also correct in highlighting there are many examples and
"traditions" of animal abuse and torture in Spain. There is a long list of
them unfortunately. But there is also a dedicated group of people that
slowly but surely work very hard to educate both the population and the
politicians, and peacefully, and through the use of the democratic process,
catalyze new laws that prohibit animal cruelty. There is still much work to
do.
Sarah Frias-Torres, Ph.D.
http://independent.academia.edu/SarahFriasTorres
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:59:40 +0100
From: cien...@silvert.org
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Catalunya
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
To add an ecological footnote to Sarah's posting, I remember on one
occasion
when I went to visit with Ramón Margalef as I walked in the door he looked
up apologetically and told me that since the Spanish government had just
authorised the use of the Catalan language, he was busy translating his
classic textbook Ecologia into Catalan and had to cancel our appointment.
As
one can gather from Sarah's postings, the Catalans take their language and
culture very seriously!
It is my understanding that the purpose of the banderillas is to severe
the
neck muscles of the bull to lessen its ability to swing its horns.
Unfortunately bullfighting is not the only form of cruelty to animals
associated with Spain. One particularly gruesome custom is that many
Spanish
hunters kill their dogs (galego español) at the end of each season, and
they
do this by hanging them. If they are not happy with the dog's performance
they hang it so that its rear feet barely touch the ground, ensuring a
slower death (they call this dancing). You can see demonstrations against
this in cities like Madrid, but whther this is having any effect in the
country I don't know.
Bill Silvert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Frias-Torres" <sfrias_tor...@hotmail.com>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Sent: quinta-feira, 12 de Agosto de 2010 16:00
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] no problem RE: [ECOLOG-L] Perseid meteor shower and
more....
MikeThere is no need for apology, as my post was trying to correct a
pervasive error and misreporting that keeps showing up on CNN and many
other
news broadcasts. I also provided a bit of history on this subject for all
those at the list server who might be interested in the recent development
of bull-fighting prohibition in Catalunya.
The Nazi reference to Franco's regime was two-fold. First, it reflected
how
bull-fighting was forced upon the Catalan culture. We are talking about a
time, specially the first years after the end of the civil war, in which
if
you spoke Catalan (our language) in the streets of Barcelona, you were
shot
to death on the spot by police or the military. Imagine if speaking your
native language resulted in an immediate death sentence.
Second, the nazi reference to the regime was correct. The basic connection
between Franco and Hitler is out there in the history books for those who
want to read it. What readers of this forum might not be aware of is that
due to the recent "ley de memoria historica" (law of historic memory) we
are
now uncovering the killing fields Franco and his nazi friends had over
many
parts of Spain, as well as extermination camps that were called
"re-training
centers". Obviously in this kind of oppression, anything labelled
"national"
had to be complied with (including bull-fighting).This was also a time
when
the democratically elected president of Catalunya, Lluis Companys, was
executed after a mock jury decided he was guilty (of being a president
elect!).There is much history that must be rewritten, but as they say,
history is written by the ones that win the wars, while the victims of
injustice rarely have a voice.
Why all this information has any relevance at all in the Ecolog forum?
Animal cruelty has many shades of gray. Sometimes it is an imposition, by
accident of history, "tradition", or simple inertia. In the Catalan case,
the citizen movement has ended the injustice. Unfortunately, we have to
wait
until January 2012 for the law to be enacted... such is the nature of the
law. There are still many other examples of animal cruelty to deal with,
and
it will take a great deal of effort to eradicate them.
There are people in Spain at large, and in Latin America, who enjoy
bull-fighting very much. So unfortunately, bull-fighting will continue for
many years to come. But at least, not in Catalunya. By the way, the fact
that some people enjoy watching an animal being tortured, in panic and
agony
for the best part of an hour, and slowly killed through sequential
stabbing
(which is what the "banderillas" and other implements accomplish)...
experiencing joy and pleasure from such a sight reveals the sadistic
personality of the viewer. In fact, enjoying animal abuse and cruelty
(whether by inflicting it or watching it unfold) is a basic characteristic
of a sadistic personality disorder.
Sarah Frias-Torres, Ph.D.
=
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