I think Emily Morgan has brought up an important issue that has mostly been ignored with regards to AP courses and college credit. While there is the danger that a student who took AP courses may not be ready for that advanced course (which if that's true they can easily drop after the first week), there is an equal danger that a student forced to retake material covered in an AP course will be very bored.
I would much rather reach high and concede to take a step back than be put in a course which is not challenging. Freshman year is very important for promoting a proper attitude about learning and engagement. I can say from experience that being forced to take courses that are too easy for you in college is very damaging to academic diligence and moral. It's the professors responsibility to set the standard for the class, and if a class is too advanced for some AP students than it should be obvious to them early on so that they can take action by the end of drop/add. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Emily Moran <mora...@nimbios.org> wrote: > I took a lot of AP classes in highschool - biology, calculus, statistics, > physics, etc. > > I also switched from AP chemistry to a chemistry course at Indiana > University halfway through the year - but that was only possible because my > highschool was experimenting with a semester rather than full-year system, > and because I had a lot of help from my parents (who are academics) in > getting me registered at IU and arguing with the highschool to arrange a > study period for me at the correct time. I don't think most students would > be able to make that work. > > Overall, the AP classes were of equivalent quality to intro university > classes. The University of Michigan accepted the credits, which allowed me > to move more into the more interesting and rigorous upper level classes. > That was really important - if I had to repeat all those courses, I might > well have gotten frustrated enough to switch to history! As it is, I took > most of the ecology classes offered, as well as two genetics courses and 4 > years of math, and eventually pursued a Ph.D. in ecology. And all those > math and science courses enabled me to incorporate mathematical modeling > and population genetics into my thesis research in ways I never would have > predicted when I was a college student. > > As with any intro course, the benefit students get depends on how diligent > they are in pursuing a subject and continuing to learn outside of class. > Most of the AP students I know are quite self-motivated. > > However, some universities or departments may be concerned that students > cpuld, for example, take their AP credit and never think about biology > again. > One way to avoid this would be to accept the AP credit ON THE CONDITION > that students take at least one upper level course in the discipline. > > Emily Moran > > > > On 11/22/2011 1:24 PM, Melanie Hedgespeth wrote: > >> It has been interesting to read the responses to this topic. >> >> Speaking from my own personal experience and having taken AP Bio in high >> school, I did feel that yes, the ecology portion was a bit rushed because >> it was towards the end of the curriculum. We had to study a bit of >> material >> on our own because we didn't have time to cover it all in class before the >> exam. However, we were also told by our teacher that we needed to make >> sure >> to cover our bases in all areas when studying on our own. She also >> suggested that the AP exam covers a lot of plant-related material and to >> focus on that while studying since that is where previous students hadn't >> done so well in the past. I felt the class in general was fine, and was >> successful on the AP Exam (testing out of both semesters of college intro >> bio). I was happy to not have to pay the tuition fees for 2 extra courses >> and did fine in upper-level bio courses that I went on to take. I later >> tutored students taking the same college intro bio course I had tested out >> of, so I was able to see what the course entailed. Honestly, I believe >> that >> the AP course I had taken in high school was just as intensive as what was >> being taught at college level. However, if I would have been required to >> take one semester of the intro course, I would definitely have preferred >> the ecology/evolution/genetics portion since that wasn't covered as much >> as >> the other areas in my circumstance. All in all, it seems very dependent on >> the school (in terms of high school or even college) as to what level of >> material the students are exposed to. >> >> Cheers, >> Melanie H. >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:14 PM, joseph gathman<jpgath...@yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >> Personal anecdote: >>> >>> While conducting part of a workshop for HS teachers, I gave them 20 >>> minutes of my freshman Intro Bio lecture on basic chemistry concepts >>> (what's an atom, what are the types of molecular bonds, the really simple >>> stuff that I shouldn't have to cover in college). >>> >>> After the 20 minutes, there was silence. The teachers were astonished - >>> not that I would lecture on such elementary ideas (as I had expected), >>> but >>> that it went so fast. One of them said, "What you just covered in 20 >>> minutes is a third of my semester", and the others nodded. My turn to be >>> astonished. I can't even imagine how you could stretch that stuff out >>> for >>> more than a week. >>> >>> The point: if a student takes AP Bio, they MIGHT just be getting what you >>> and I consider a proper HS bio class. Certainly not college-level >>> biology. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> Subject: Re: Treatment of Ecology in AP classes >>>> >>>> I can't speak directly to the question of whether the >>>> classes provide adequate >>>> coverage of any given topic. Consulting the AP web >>>> site confirms your suspicion that ecology coverage comes >>>> last in the course. And of course, whether any given >>>> topic is covered adequately is strictly dependent on the >>>> school and the teacher, not the topical listing on the web >>>> site. I can say, from having served as a grader for >>>> the AP Biology exam, that ecology is well covered on the >>>> exam. >>>> >>>> That said, I also suspect that ecology may be a subject >>>> that gets less than full >>>> coverage in some of the classes because of >>>> sequencing. Also, it is typically >>>> covered in most intro biology courses late in the second >>>> semester if a two >>>> semester course. So, if you are wanting to assign >>>> credit according to coverage >>>> (seems to make sense), the proposal to give credit for the >>>> ecology portion of >>>> your course may be out of sync with the sequencing in the >>>> AP course. >>>> >>>> FWIW, I have long had a problem with AP coursework. >>>> Many schools likely do a >>>> good job with it -- but, and I know, I am an old school >>>> curmudgeon -- if these >>>> kids are ready for college, just send them to >>>> college. If they are not ready, >>>> don't let a high school offer them college level >>>> courses. But of course, that >>>> is a fight long ago lost. >>>> >>>> mcneely >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>
